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The Shredder
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PostSubject: DE Rule Leaks   Sat May 27 2017, 14:04

Just came across this:

http://www.3plusplus.net/2017/05/8th-edition-core-rule-leaks/

I've lost track of what has been leaked and what hasn't, so apologies if this has been posted before.
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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Sat May 27 2017, 15:21

Well, I can certainly see myself being disappointed by the cover mechanics...

SM's get a 2+, we get a 4+ and Termies become invulnerable to anything that doesn't have an AP value. Though a Shadow field could be awesome...

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Sat May 27 2017, 15:33

@Ikol wrote:
Well, I can certainly see myself being disappointed by the cover mechanics...

SM's get a 2+, we get a 4+ and Termies become invulnerable to anything that doesn't have an AP value.  

Yeah, I think it's fair to say that benefit we gained from the new to-wound chart will be outweighed by the new cover mechanics.

Also, there don't appear to be any levels of cover - so we have the odd scenario wherein a hedge provides exactly as much protection as a fortified wall. scratch

@Ikol wrote:
Though a Shadow field could be awesome...

Do you mean the Night Shield?


Although, I'm actually quite concerned about the Shadowfield. If it works the same as it does now, then even a single Mortal Wound will basically screw the Archon over completely.
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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Sat May 27 2017, 15:38

True, but against non mortal wounds, a 2+ invuln with +1 to the dice roll for cover gives a 1+ save. And Invulns cannot be effected by AP modifiers.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Sat May 27 2017, 15:42

@Ikol wrote:
True, but against non mortal wounds, a 2+ invuln with +1 to the dice roll for cover gives a 1+ save.  And Invulns cannot be effected by AP modifiers.

The cover bonus doesn't improve Invulnerable saves.
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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Sat May 27 2017, 15:54

Missed that...

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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Sat May 27 2017, 22:44

and a roll of 1 is always a fail, so no 1+ saves.

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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Wed May 31 2017, 03:48

Would the Mortal Wound bypass the shadow field? If you don't roll, it doesn't fail, right?
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Wed May 31 2017, 09:23

@Myrvn wrote:
Would the Mortal Wound bypass the shadow field? If you don't roll, it doesn't fail, right?

If the wording stays the same, then the model will lose his Shadowfield if he takes an unsaved wound, not just if he fails a save with it.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Wed May 31 2017, 10:46

It now fails when you fail an invulnerable save so mortal wounds don't cause it to implode.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Wed May 31 2017, 10:56

@Count Adhemar wrote:
It now fails when you fail an invulnerable save so mortal wounds don't cause it to implode.

That's a mercy then.
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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Wed May 31 2017, 11:19

http://s614.photobucket.com/user/helvexis/library/DE%20rules

rounded up of stuff i have found from everywhere else.
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Wed May 31 2017, 12:26

@The Shredder wrote:

That's a mercy then.
Not really since otherwise you could have a sslyth take the wound and keep your 2+ even after a failed save.
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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Wed May 31 2017, 18:01

There is a benefit to putting 2+ save models in cover, as it offsets one point of rending.

Overall, I'm really liking the new rules. A lot of my complaints about DE appear to have been remedied.

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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Wed May 31 2017, 18:04

What complains exactly?
Just curious. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Wed May 31 2017, 18:30

@CptMetal wrote:
What complains exactly?
Just curious. Very Happy

Wyches aren't utter crap. Mandrakes still aren't the melee from the shadows that fluff makes them out to be, but at least they're better than warriors in melee now. Everything is faster. When a Raider explodes, it doesn't murder a large number of the embarked warriors anymore, and they're tougher to begin with. PFP no longer has overlapping rules with Coven units. Putting heavy weapons in a Scourge squad isn't pants on head stupid any more. There's actually a reason to use the demiklaive. Scourges are looking fantastic and it makes sense to use heavy weapons with them now. Half the armies in the game aren't immune to phantasm grenades any more. My three pack of Ravagers will be seeing the light of day again.

Basically, a lot of models and weapons which were relegated to the dustbin have become worthwhile.

The bunch of 7+ saves on models which have an invul save is... weird, but hey.

I could keep going if you like... :-p

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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Wed May 31 2017, 18:40

No, I´m fine. You are right with all of that except the phantasm grenade launcher. I think it´s a stupid weapon. I´d prefer to kill an enemy, that counts as lowering the enemy leadership by one, too!
Or maybe, if the enemy leadership would be lowered for every hit of it, to a maximum of three. Something like that.

Well. It´s only 3 points on the bright side so maybe I´ll still use it. Very Happy

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tegs
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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Wed May 31 2017, 19:14

Reducing Ld by one is likely to kill an enemy due to battleshock, albeit after they get to fight back.

I don't think it's particularly good, but at least it works on everybody now.

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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Wed May 31 2017, 22:51

@tegs wrote:
Wyches aren't utter crap.

I've seen a few people say similar things about Wyches but what exactly about them is not crap now? They are slightly more survivable in that most stuff wounds them on 3+ rather than 2+ now and they might actually take an armour save every now and then. But their Dodge save is still Fight phase only, their FNP is now half as effective, their damage output is still just about zero, their special weapons are bland and inoffensive (a real drawback in a weapon) and their special ability is pretty naff as it's a simple roll off and not influenced by any other factors, like a buff for x number of models in the unit or having a Succubus nearby.

In short, what is it that isn't utter crap now?

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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Wed May 31 2017, 22:59

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@tegs wrote:
Wyches aren't utter crap.

In short, what is it that isn't utter crap now?

... prettiest models in 40k..?

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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Thu Jun 01 2017, 00:58

How about hitting on a 2+ by turn 3? Or re-rolling to charge turn 2? Or having a Succubus with the unit allowing them to essentially auto-hit turn 3? Not saying they're fantastic but they certainly have better offensive synergies than they used to.

I'm more than a little disappointed with the amount of 2+ to hits everywhere. A Succubus hits on a 2+ as equally as a Haemunculi does and the Haemonculi is better at it! With more attacks and a straight up better weapon (Electro-corrosive whip is exactly the agoniser with dmg 2), 5+ invul at all times and T5. <- That's just not right.
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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Thu Jun 01 2017, 01:17

Quote :
How about hitting on a 2+ by turn 3? Or re-rolling to charge turn 2? Or having a Succubus with the unit allowing them to essentially auto-hit turn 3? Not saying they're fantastic but they certainly have better offensive synergies than they used to.

This is really a similar mechanic to how Furious Charge works now. Wyches are supposed to be in combat Turn 2. They already have a re-roll to charge, turn one, and honestly, hitting on a 2+ isn't that great when your hitting with the strength of two-weeks-waterlogged pasta. The fact of the matter is that with 2 6+ saves at best they won't be surviving long enough to reap the full benefit of power from pain.

I could see keeping a squad in a raider in reserve for a late game charge out of deep strike, but whoops, nope, with no webway portal, and no deep strike on our transports, that's out too.

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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Thu Jun 01 2017, 01:58

@TheBaconPope wrote:
Quote :
How about hitting on a 2+ by turn 3? Or re-rolling to charge turn 2? Or having a Succubus with the unit allowing them to essentially auto-hit turn 3? Not saying they're fantastic but they certainly have better offensive synergies than they used to.

This is really a similar mechanic to how Furious Charge works now. Wyches are supposed to be in combat Turn 2. They already have a re-roll to charge, turn one, and honestly, hitting on a 2+ isn't that great when your hitting with the strength of two-weeks-waterlogged pasta. The fact of the matter is that with 2 6+ saves at best they won't be surviving long enough to reap the full benefit of power from pain.

I could see keeping a squad in a raider in reserve for a late game charge out of deep strike, but whoops, nope, with no webway portal, and no deep strike on our transports, that's out too.
From the way the dodge rule is written they don't get a save against pistols in close combat. And they lost haywire grenades. The free hekatrix and cheaper and (kinda) better agonized is the real buff. The boss lady was always the one doing the killing anyways.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Thu Jun 01 2017, 06:57

@alexwellace wrote:
How about hitting on a 2+ by turn 3? Or re-rolling to charge turn 2? Or having a Succubus with the unit allowing them to essentially auto-hit turn 3? Not saying they're fantastic but they certainly have better offensive synergies than they used to.

But they still do no damage! It doesn't matter how many times you hit if your hits don't do anything! 30 attacks on the charge, hitting on 2+ and rerolling misses and they still only kill 3 marines!

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PostSubject: Re: DE Rule Leaks   Thu Jun 01 2017, 07:55

I'm confused about a line in the rules that says

A detachment may require all models to be from the same faction. A SM captain has the imperium and adeptus astartes factions. So every other unit in his detachment must have the imperium faction or they must all have the adeptus astartes keyword.

Does that mean the imperium (and aeldari) can just make massive cluster piles?

I ask because the ynnari characters have only the ynnari and aeldari keywords but are given a special rule to allow them to ride drukhari and asuryan transports. So they can be taken in those armies clearly but the only way that's true is if (aeldari) is enough of a faction to count as all from the same faction.

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