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drdoom222222
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Mon May 29 2017, 14:58

Some leaks from Dakka -

Eldars:
Scatter lasers are 36" Heavy 4 Ap0

Inquisition and Grey Knights:
Inquisitors can enter any Imperial vehicle and give bubble buffs to Imperium keyword units, depending on the Ordo chosen
Grey Knights know a nerfed verison of Smite, 12" 1 mortal wound (3 if Daemon keyword)

Necrons:
Reanimation protocols are made at the start of your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again in the following turns. You cannot roll if the whole unit is slain.
Living metal allows for automatically regaining lost wounds
Basic Gauss is 24" Rapid Fire **Ap-2**, Gauss Cannon is Ap-3 DmgD3
Discipline 10
Warriors cost unchanged form 7th.
Monolith M6" W20 S8 T8 Save3+, Gauss Flux Arc Heavy 3 S5 Ap-2, Whip Heavy 6 S8 Ap-2 DmgD6. When it gets charged, roll on a D6 and if 4+ (or worse, depending on wounds lost) charging unit gets D6 mortal wounds.

Space Marines:
Grav is S5 Ap-3 and does DmgD3 if Save is 3+ or better
Nartecium no longer provides FnP but heals a model for D3 wounds

Tau:
Markerlights are cumulative per phase and provide different bonuses, depending on how many hit the unit. Basic is reroll 1s, then you have remove cover bonus, increase BS, use Seeker/Destroyer Missiles (normally snapshooting)
Railguns have a chance to do Mortal Wounds
Activating Nova Reactor may result in Mortal Wound
Firesight Marksmen are Independent Characters
Pulse rifles are AP0. Pulse Blasters AP-1 at 10" and AP-2 at 5", Assault 2.
Ghostkeels and Stealth Suits give a -1 malus to BS if shot at from more than 12", can deploy outside of deployment zone at 12".
Broadside Railgun is Heavy 2 S8 Ap-4 DmgD6, HYMP is Heavy 4 S7 Ap-1 DmgD3
Pathfinders and Kroots are faster than Fire Warriors
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drdoom222222
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Mon May 29 2017, 15:15

more leaks from dakka -

Mephiston

M 7" / WS 2+ / BS 2+ / S 5 / T 5 / W 5 / S 2+
His sword is S X2 / -3 VP / D3 Wounds
Ignores Wounds and mortal wounds on a 5+
Casts/Dispels (with an added +1 bonus) 2 powers and knows 3 Powers from BA discipline

Tervigon

M 8" / WS 4+ / BS 4+ / S 7 / T 8 / W 14 / S 3+

Creates a unit of 10 barebone termagants or can add up to 10 dead barebone termagants to an unit (not over the unit size at the start of the game)

Blood Angels:
Black Rage gives +1A on the charge and ignores a wound on a roll of a 6.
Death Company: 2A each, models can take different loadouts
Lemartes allows rerolling charge distance and to hit rolls in melee to DC units within 6"
Sanguinary Guard rerolls to hit rolls if there is a BA general within 6"
Death Mask gives -1 Discipline to enemies within 3"
Encarmine Sword Ap-3 DmgD3, Axe S+1 Ap-2 DmgD3
Sanguinor has WS2+ W4 S4 T4 A5, can charge even if he used Fall Back, gives +1A to every BA within 6"
Dante has WS2+ W6 S4 T4 A5 Save 2+, allows BA units within 6" to reroll to hits. Axe is S+2 Ap-3 DmgD3, rerolls to wound if it is a Character

Tervigon M8" W14 S7 T8 Save3+, can either create a 10 barebone Termagaunt unit (you need to keep the points for them) OR re-add 10 barebone Termagaunt models to an existing unit.
Ork Battlewagon M12" W16 T7 Save 4+, can get T8 but loses Open-topped. Deff Rolla hits on a 2+, 6 attacks S8 Ap-2.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Mon May 29 2017, 15:25

@Logan Frost wrote:
Not if flyers enter from turn 2 like in 7th.

Possible, but looks unlikely at the moment. We haven't seen any mention of this either in the core rules or in the Helldrake's own rules.

@drdoom222222 wrote:

Reanimation protocols are made at the start of your movement phase. Roll a D6 for every slain model, on a 5+ it comes back. You can roll again in the following turns. You cannot roll if the whole unit is slain.

That sounds interesting. Especially the part about being able to continue rolling in subsequent turns.

I wonder how it will work for characters.
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drdoom222222
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Mon May 29 2017, 15:36

some elder leaks from dakka -

- Warp Spiders M7" Save 3+, can choose to move 4d6 and get Fly but cannot Advance nor Charge. Flickerjump gives -1BS to enemy but you roll 2D6 and on a 2 you lose a Warp Spider. Death Spinner is 18" Rapid Fire S6 Ap-4. With Exarch you reroll failed Morale tests.
- Wraithknight W24 S8 T8 Save 3+. Wraithcannon is Assault 2 S10 Ap-4 DmgD6, Ghostglaive is Sx2 Ap-4 Dmg6 straigth (no D6 roll). Hits on a 3+ and gets worse losing wounds.
- D-Scythes are 8" AssaultD3 S10 Ap-4

Space Wolves:
Thunderwolves Cavalry M10" W3 S4 T5 Save 3+, same equip as before and they cost nine melta bombs without equipments
Lord on Wolf has W7
Frost weapons add a mortal wound on a 6 (not clear on what dice roll)
Runic Armours give 5+ Invuln Save (4+ if Terminator)

Eldars:
Banshees M8" A2 Save 4+. Always attack first with the mask, add 3" to Advance and Charge rolls, Exarch gives a -1 penalty to hit in melee to enemy models. Executioner Blade is WS-1 S+2 Ap-3 DmgD3

Some new leaks:
Storm Shields still provide 3+ Invuln save
ATSKNF rerolls failed Morale tests

From ATT:
Crisis suits minimum squad size is 3
On a 6 to wound, Railguns do mortal wounds

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Mon May 29 2017, 15:40

@drdoom222222 wrote:
Flickerjump gives -1BS to enemy but you roll 2D6 and on a 2 you lose a Warp Spider.

Honestly, why even bother with this? I wish GW would just drop the pretence that Flickerjump has a downside and spare us some unnecessary rolling.


That aside, I wonder if M7-8 is going to be the standard for Dark Eldar. If so, you'll be pleased to know that at least some of our infantry will be able to match the speed of a Tervigon.

In fact, I'm going to hazard a guess here:
- Wyches and Succubi will be M8.
- Warriors, Trueborn, Incubi and the Archon and his Court will be M7.
- Coven stuff will be M6.
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drdoom222222
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Mon May 29 2017, 15:43

Looks like in general -

M7 - for heavily armoured elder units - (incubi probably M7)
M8 - for lightly armoured elder units (wyches " M8)
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Mon May 29 2017, 16:14


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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Mon May 29 2017, 19:00

Not a fan of warp spider nerfs.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Mon May 29 2017, 19:26

@TeenageAngst wrote:
Not a fan of warp spider nerfs.

It was probably inevitable. They're still playable, at least.

I'm curious to see if there is a limitation imposed on the number of scatter lasers on Eldar jetbikes.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Mon May 29 2017, 21:40

Quote :
It was probably inevitable. They're still playable, at least.

In what game? Cause not 8th. They're boned in close combat and their limited range with RAPID FIRE (god help me) means they have to play within spitting distance of the enemy to even stand a chance of working.

Basically everything good is now bad, and judging by the Wraithknight and Warp Spiders, it's not even debatably bad, it's just straight up awful.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Mon May 29 2017, 21:45

Wraithkights are T8, 24w's and a 3+ save... how is that awful? lol. If they keep the Shield and the Ghostglaive is Sx2 Ap-4 Dmg6, i'd say the Wraithknight is just as good, it can be wounded against poison and no FnP now, but with 24 wounds!!!! yeah stomp is gone... well it might not be we havent seen that part of the rules yet.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Mon May 29 2017, 21:54

I would explain why it's awful but I'd have to do it like 3-4 times because it takes about that long for people to get it. Considering my predictions have been so spot on I should change my username to Nostra-freaking-damus however, believe what you will.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Mon May 29 2017, 22:01

@TeenageAngst wrote:
I would explain why it's awful but I'd have to do it like 3-4 times because it takes about that long for people to get it. Considering my predictions have been so spot on I should change my username to Nostra-freaking-damus however, believe what you will.

K, just giving my 0.2c. I think they will be fine you dont, dont need to explain :p

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Mon May 29 2017, 22:09

@TeenageAngst wrote:
I would explain why it's awful but I'd have to do it like 3-4 times because it takes about that long for people to get it.

If you'd be kind enough to explain it just once, I'd like to hear why the Wraithknight is awful now.

I promise to use the whole 10% of my brainpower when reading your answer. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Tue May 30 2017, 00:13

@The Shredder wrote:
@TeenageAngst wrote:
I would explain why it's awful but I'd have to do it like 3-4 times because it takes about that long for people to get it.

If you'd be kind enough to explain it just once, I'd like to hear why the Wraithknight is awful now.

I promise to use the whole 10% of my brainpower when reading your answer. Very Happy

Might wanna dial it up to 11.

This explanation requires a number of assumptions:

- Wraithknights will probably cost more points than they did before, comparatively speaking, because the #1 complaint in 7th edition was "Wraithknights are undercosted."

- The D-Cannons are probably going to be similar to the D-Scythes, just maybe with more damage but fewer shots.

- Stomp will either be gone or replaced with something so bad as to be inconsequential to the actual functionality of the unit.

- They probably lost the benefit of being a Jump unit.

None of these assumptions I think are ridiculous nor unexpected, and were it merely those, I would say the Wraithknight would be a perfectly fine option, well balanced compared to the rest of the spread. However they then proceeded to nerf it further. The number of wounds it has for example is a misdirection in 8th of Sigmar. It says 24 but what it actually has is 12, with the remaining 12 being there for stat padding. Like Superheavies, it will lose combat effectiveness, it will lose shooting effectiveness, and it will lose mobility as it takes damage. Now 24 wounds is a lot to take out, but 12? With just a 3+ save? That's easy mode. Even with an invul save, a few Ravager volleys will shoot this guy's kneecaps out in one turn. And with everything not only moving faster on average but also hitting and wounding more reliably, the effectiveness of this unit diminishes drastically. Bolters are now a threat, anti-tank is a huge threat, it loses its ability to outright remove tough enemies, and worst of all, with diminishing movement it can't chase enemies. Not being able to effectively chase opponents down means this guy is left as an objective holder the moment it drops to half health. A big, fat, paper tiger that squads on an objective until something can be bothered to remove it as it plinks away at opponents shooting with a 5+ to hit, and god help you if you brought the sword and board variant.

To quote Sam Elliot, "He's great out of the gate but not one for stamina." You're going to be paying the points for the crib sheet at full health. After it loses those wounds however what you're left with is an ineffectual mess bumbling around trying to fight things that it should have killed 2 turns ago. Just like the Knight Titans, the victory doesn't come from killing it but instead for hobbling it and then moving around it. Stupid players will not realize this and still bring one to fill a vital role only for that role to no longer be filled after the first couple turns as it wanders around moving 10" or 8" a turn, unable to catch even jump pack marines. Those diminishing returns, that lack of utility after it drops in wounds, is where the real nerf comes from, because there is no way to rely on something when it becomes less effective over time.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Tue May 30 2017, 00:18


Let's keep the personal out of these discussions, shall we?

And let's also remember that even if we have the complete new stats for a unit, until we also get the complete rule set for 8e, we are still flying blind to a large degree with all of this.

So, let's focus on the positives.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Tue May 30 2017, 00:39

I seen the full Tau rules... we're probably weaker than the current Dark Eldar codex. Perhaps one of the worst codices of all 40k time. Gulliman costs 360 points in 8th and a team of 3 HYMP broadsides costs 486 points and has no chance of killing him. Even if you upgraded them to the even more es pensive HRR. Each hit only does 1d3 damage and -1 rend. All of our stuff is insanely points costed except troops. Crisis teams lost firepower because of the lack of ML BS increase AND went up in cost and need to be taken in 3 man teams and are only 3 wounds. Their guns are terrible for the cost too. The new Primaris jetpack marines are basically better in every way and will win against crisis suits and are not priced at such insane values.

I am afraid the Dark Eldar are going to get this treatment too.

Lascannons are like 25 points. Heavy Rail Rifle 68 something and it has the same stat line except for -4 and on a 6 it causes 1 mortal wound.

I warned people in advance all around the internet letting Frankie and Reece balance the Tau was a bad idea. They have always complained about how strong they were despite barely ever winning tournaments. They needed some nerfs in a few kley units but this..... is devastation. 5 ML hits for +1 BS. Otherwise our army is mostly hitting on 4+ still with no way to boost BS.

I hope the Dark Kin don't fare so poorly.

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I'm in outraged shock they could make a codex this bad.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Tue May 30 2017, 00:48

Quote :
So, let's focus on the positives.

No one's going to be complaining that Wraithknights and Warp Spiders are overpowered anymore.

There's gonna be a lot of cheap ones for sale on ebay in a month if you like the models.

We might see Howling Banshees hit the table again.

The Avatar of Khaine just got a lot more appealing in the new edition.

Quote :
I am afraid the Dark Eldar are going to get this treatment too.

No, Dark Eldar are going to be bizonkers, trust me. Also stop being negative. Also I said Tau were done for when I saw their little spotlight, because this new version of the game will heavily favor close combat and because they were so strong in 7th edition so they were gonna get nerfed hard. On that note, @Gobsmakked can I change my name to Nostra-freaking-damos?

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Tue May 30 2017, 00:57

Except other than a few broken units they were never strong. They were never winning the top ITC tournaments barring the rare lucky win. This kind of all or nothing thinking is what has now made the Tau so unviable. Everybody thought everything the Tau has was so scary when it wasn't. Now we have nothing at all. They killed the possibility of a perfectly viable army.

Vespids which are more or less unchanged are now are strongest unit. Let's put that into perspective.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Tue May 30 2017, 01:28

It's not that Tau were strong per se it's that they were easy. If you could point and shoot, a Tau army would get you about 70% of the way there. You were gonna be in the middle tables of a tournament at worst if you knew how to play them properly, and in the hands of a 4D chess wizard, they could win. The problem is they had no chill. Fire Warrior gunlines and Riptide Wings were way, way too powerful for how easy they were to play and how easy they were to field. Eldar had to rely on shenanigans and min-maxing, Space Marines used deathstars, etc. You needed to be a much smarter player than the Tau player to beat them without a fully optimized list even running a powerful army.

Tau will be able to win in this edition but not tournaments. They're going to be hard as hell to play because the tables have turned and now their entire objective is moving and shooting as much as possible to stay out of charge range. Target priority, move distances, and unit support are absolutely essential whereas before they weren't really needed half the time.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Tue May 30 2017, 01:30

So Tau is the new Dark Eldar?
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Tue May 30 2017, 01:36

God I hope so.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Tue May 30 2017, 01:38

I read the rules too and they were nerf yes but imo got alot of buffs in different areas, i think they arent as bad as you are thinking (My opinions)

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Tue May 30 2017, 01:52

Unless I missed something in those rules the Tau haven't gotten worse in my opinion if anything because the marker light abilities stack and you don't spend them they are better, it might just be that in the area I play in marker lights were just taken as a points filler when needed so I never saw them fielded that much. Now however I fully expect to see them all over the place with them being more readily available as a legitimate choice in the bigger army formations
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Leaked rules   Tue May 30 2017, 02:52

Considering the increase in points - rhino is 70+ points, drop pod is 105! I am assuming a 2000 point 7th edition game is going to be like a 1500 point 8th edition game

It explains why you can do a 1500 point 8th edition game in 90 minutes - its like a 1k game of 7th

In context - the 350+ point riptide make sense.

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