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 8e - Vehicles

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 15:13

Linky

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Rhivan
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 15:21

I wonder how well our Raiders and Venoms will be in CC I mean our vehicles have spikes and barbs literally designed to ram into people. (and chain snare and shock prow upgrades) so I'm really hoping our vehicles can shine in CC.

It'll actually be interesting with our vehicles if they can assault better then most vehicles as well, even if our vehicles are attacked because if they survive then the raider or venom hits back and if it's carrying wyches they can shoot down on their attackers.

On the topic of the article though I'm pretty happy with vehicles in this edition (from the lens of this article at least)
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 15:23

I'm going to go ahead and predict that raiders will have relatively good (for vehicles) stats in close combat, especially with chainsnares and shock prows. This also opens up a lot of tactical possibilities. Worried about a 2nd unit shooting up your wyches after the unit they're engaged with runs away? Just charge one unit with the raider and the other with the wyches to tie both up. Worried about wyches taking overwatch fire? Charge their raider, that they just hopped out of, in first.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 15:26

It's also apparent, at least from the stat line alone, that a 3 dark lance ravager will tear Annihilation Barges apart pretty easily.
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Rhivan
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 15:41

With how combat works now the example of tying up both units doesn't work in 8th, in fact the Wyches seem to be one of the only units in the game that'll be able to get around that rule. Although I didn't think of the Overwatch Raider charge first, good call Smile
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 15:45

So that barge has a movement of 12 inches. What can we expect? 14? 16?
That would be awesome!

Keep in mind that most (!!) vehicles will have a -1 BS point for moving and shooting with heavy weapons but we don't. That's a buff!

And but I'm afraid that our tanks won't be as resilient.
Only toughness 5? Or less wounds?
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 15:51

Well  that sound a bit positive for us. Charging of vehicles into ongoing combats, soaking overwatch. Wonder what that phantasm grenade launcher do. And shock prow. And chain snares. And grisly trophies.

And i wonder if Razorwing can Charge...

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 16:09

@Rhivan wrote:
With how combat works now the example of tying up both units doesn't work in 8th, in fact the Wyches seem to be one of the only units in the game that'll be able to get around that rule. Although I didn't think of the Overwatch Raider charge first, good call Smile

By 'tie up', I meant 'force the enemy unit to either stay tied up in close combat, or fall back and skip their ability to shoot in their next turn.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 16:23

It wold be interesting, if our vehicles would be more of a fighters, than than barge.
Like ws 4+ or something )))

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Anarchistscourge
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 16:36

I would think that even with all our spikey bits and chain snares we would still have a WS of 5+. Raiders and Venoms are not "combat" vehicles and the 5+ would represent our ability to cut enemies down with said spikey bits. i would think something like WS 5+, Str 5 (possibly 6) with 3 A (possibly 4 but i doubt it as thats what a dreadnought gets).
Im also expecting T6 with 6W and a 4+ armour save. We already know they have 5+ invuln vs. shooting.
Definatley hoping that Jink is still a thing and gives -1 BS or something similar otherwise we will still be paper boats compared others.

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mynamelegend
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 16:40

The loss of tank shock is certainly a pity. One of the coolest things about DE was always the ability to use tank shock shenanigans to divide-and-conquer.
With any luck we may end up sharing the "effective close combat transports" spot with orks, instead. That'd be a neat consolation prize.
How will charging work with vehicles turning, anyway? Can you turn a battlewagon from side to front while charging with it to get another inch or two of range?
Will you still need to charge one of the units you shot at, or can you shoot at something and charge at something entirely different now? Even if you can't, will the "can charge guys in a transport if you shot the transport and it popped" rule remain?
Will our army consist of raiders Tokyo Drifting around with the side toward the enemy until it's time to ram infantry immediately after popping their transport with a dissie or Dark Lance? Because if that's the case I'll take back... Some of the bad things I've said about DE in 8th.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 17:02

Fast and Furious: Commorragh Drift.

My guess is shock prow and chain snares give better WS or S.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 17:57

I luke the new vehicle melee rules, hopefully with our vehicles we will have some of the better cheivle melee in the game (along with Orks).

I still feel vehicles will be squishy, i dont see (so far) a decrese in high damage/value shooting, if anything shooting is getting stronger.

So i'm still needing to see allt he rules before i say if these rules are good or not.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 18:00

@Anarchistscourge wrote:
Definatley hoping that Jink is still a thing and gives -1 BS or something similar otherwise we will still be paper boats compared others.

Rather than jinking I think this would be better for a Night Shield upgrade instead. I know it removes the downside that jinking creates but hey Night Shields in 5th reducing the range of weapons were cool and I can see this being the compromise between our current version and 5th edition version.

I'm hoping we get envenomed blades back that makes our attacks more deadly but I think that is mostly going to be relegated to the shock prow instead and envenomed blades will not make a return.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 19:01

The Live stream prove that you can have 2 5man units in vehicles, vehicles has a limit number of spots not units.

A Raider could have 3 different Incubi units (if they are still 3-10) and a IC.

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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 19:05

Or 2 units of wyches to force 2 No Escape.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 19:11

@Logan Frost wrote:
Or 2 units of wyches to force 2 No Escape.

This is an idea, but for me personally, I think im going Incubi, if I can kill them and dont need No Retreat then why bother? Sense they will most likely still have a 3+ saveand now PfP is a free 6++ additional save, i'd rather have that raw killing power >:3 WHAHAHAHAHAA

Just assuming things is all, this might no be true, wont know till we see the rules.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 19:24

For everyone who said new Dark Lances are worse - now u can take out A Barge much more easyly with one Ravager than previously.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 19:48

@SERAFF wrote:
For everyone who said new Dark Lances are worse - now u can take out A Barge much more easyly with one Ravager than previously.

Not at all.

Before, you could take out a barge with the single lance on a raider. Now, that is impossible.

I think my main gripe with how Dark lances now suck compared to what they used to be is this:
They took our dedicated anti tank and made it into an anti infantry. The problem is we had PLENTY of anti infantry already with dissies, venoms, splinter weapons, hell, even LD shenanigans causing wounds.
Our Dark lances were for 2 things- anti tank and to insta kill t4 characters. If it hit, it could shake, stun, imobolise, or destroy a tank. Now, if it hits, in most cases it will do NOTHING. A wound here or there is laughable. it causes no ill effects in any way, where before we at least got a stun.
So to counter this, we would need a anti tank weapon that would actually do something, either be more reliable in taking off swaths of damage, or having the potential to be a threat. Now? Yeah, not gonna happen.
People hear "D6" wounds and get all happy, thinking "6", but the reality is that "1" will come up just as often as a "6" will. The frustration you will feel when shooting three ravagers and three raiders at an imperial knight and totaling 7 wounds will be comical!


So with this new edition, they let us keep all our anti troop weapons, and turned our only true anti tank weapon into ANOTHER anti troop weapon. We did not need that! We need a more powerful anti tank weapon!

Either the points have to come WAY down for the dark lance, or it may never see the table. Dissies will be better in almost every situation, and weight of fire can counter the shortcomings.

Again, just my .02

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 20:01

Well my .02 is they are still good AT.

Nothing is AT anymore, a good AT will be Multi Wounds + Higher Str and that is what a DL is.

Vesicles will be T6-T8 on average

Our DL's uses to be 4+ to wound a vehicle AV12, well T8 is still 4+, but most vehicles from what i'm seeing are not really high toughness so we will mostly need 3+

Yes it is a D6, we could do 1 or we could do 6, over all 2-3 shots will average out to 10.5 wounds.

So... from what i'm seeing 2-3 DL's to kill most vehicles.

Plus we are a Rend -4, most likely they wont get a save unless its an invul or a 6+

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 20:03

@Skulnbonz wrote:
@SERAFF wrote:
For everyone who said new Dark Lances are worse - now u can take out A Barge much more easyly with one Ravager than previously.

Not at all.

Before, you could take out a barge with the single lance on a raider. Now, that is impossible.  


And how often did you take out barges with a single lance? I know that I've poured several shots into them with little or no effect a good portion of the time.

Yes, the upper range of what is possible has been decreased, but overall, dark lances are more reliable against vehicles such as barges and dreadnoughts.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 20:09

I've never killed a vehicle with 1 lance.....

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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 20:13

I killed a Soul Grinder once, it's been fun.
Most of the times DL were utter crap, now are at least reliable, forcing multiple saves, if any, per hit.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 20:13

Raiders can enter combat:



Mwahahahahahahah!!! Basic infantry literally can't outrun our ships. Raiders to catch them, wyches to hold and Incubi and everything else to kill them. Our armies don't have to worry about getting home so we can just suicide them into whatever we want. Effing glorious.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Vehicles   Thu May 18 2017, 20:32

@Skulnbonz wrote:
Before, you could take out a barge with the single lance on a raider

Even Landraider. But this luck happens once per year even if you shoot DL 50 times every day.
Just calculate what was before and now.

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