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Demantiae
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sun Jun 04 2017, 03:41

Mathhammering out power swords vs agonisers puts the power sword as the superiority weapon vs anything T3 and vs T4-5 with power armour (3+ save). That's most units you'd come up against. I don't think agonizers are valuable outside of fighting nids or demon princes (or anything else with non-vehicle monsters). The extra 1 AP on swords swings it mathematically.

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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sun Jun 04 2017, 05:41

Is that with Combat Drugs as well?
For Wyches and weapons. At 5 guys it says one can bring Wych weapons. At 10 "up to two further Wyches may also do this." The "further" sounds like the total would be 3x special weapons at 10 man squads. And it also matches the box and 7th, which doesn't really mean anything, but lends support.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sun Jun 04 2017, 05:50

For warriors i think agonsiers are always the way to go, its only 4pts for something you might not use, so spending an extra 12-16pts isnt a big deal but spending 30-40pts is alittle bit more of one.

As for Wychs, if you are going to give them +1s drug then yes i would 100% go with sword

But for me the Agoniser vs PS, how much better is it actually? in %? When i did the math for S4/-3AP vs S5/-2ap, the S5/-2ap was better over all vs 3+ saves.

This is similar, instead its 4+ to wound -2ap and S3/-3ap.

Effectively its the same, -1s/+1ap +1s/-1ap.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sun Jun 04 2017, 05:59

Ok here we go

T4, 3+ save (a Space Marine)

You get 15 hits total (lets just say its 15 hits for math purposes)

Power Sword
S3 vs T4 = 5+ to wound
5+ is 33.34%
5 wounds
-3ap vs 3+ (6+ save)
6+ 16.67% chance
4 wounds

Agonsier
Wounds on 4+
4+ is 50%
7.5 wounds
-2ap vs 3+ (5+ save)
5+ is 33.34% chance
5 wounds

From my math the Agoniser is better by 1 wound.

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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sun Jun 04 2017, 06:51

What's the best range to put your raider/venom at before you disembark, move and charge?

Cause you don't want to get charged but you also don't want them to move backwards and kite you.

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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sun Jun 04 2017, 10:29

Actually I did my maths wrong (was late last night!). VS T4 3+ a model with 4 attacks gets .88 wounds with an agoniser and .74 with a sword.

With drugs a hekatrix gets less than one wound per round with the +1 A drugs. If you take +1 S then for sure they'll want a sword. But they're not really doing much damage to marines. I guess incubi or Grots are meant to be assaulting marines instead. So wyches will probably be best used to assault T3 instead?

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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sun Jun 04 2017, 13:06

@Demantiae wrote:
Actually I did my maths wrong (was late last night!). VS T4 3+ a model with 4 attacks gets .88 wounds with an agoniser and .74 with a sword.

With drugs a hekatrix gets less than one wound per round with the +1 A drugs. If you take +1 S then for sure they'll want a sword. But they're not really doing much damage to marines. I guess incubi or Grots are meant to be assaulting marines instead. So wyches will probably be best used to assault T3 instead?

And thats the problem with Wychs Sad

If we want melee we need to use Incubi, Succubus, Coven units, Wychs as troops dedicated melee do fine for their points but Warriors over the game turns will just do more.

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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sun Jun 04 2017, 16:11

Played wych cult yesterday, heres what I found:

Reavers are still mean. Gave them +2 mv and they were soaring

Blade vanes on veichles are actually really useful

Give your big units the +1 S, it worked really well

Once you get into combat, just keep piling into more, I didn't find wyches frail at all because they were either in transport or in combat.

Altho the one time they were left in the open a whole squad got wiped

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Demantiae
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sun Jun 04 2017, 18:05

I don't get why wyches don't have poison 4+ or something. Warriors have poison shots, wracks have poison blades why are wyches exempt?

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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sun Jun 04 2017, 18:24

Because fluff. Poison would make it too easy for them. And they enjoy a challenge

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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sun Jun 04 2017, 18:27

They got a poisoned personality already. That must be enough.

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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sun Jun 04 2017, 18:50

@RedRegicide wrote:
Played wych cult yesterday, heres what I found:

Reavers are still mean. Gave them +2 mv and they were soaring

Blade vanes on veichles are actually really useful

Give your big units the +1 S, it worked really well

Once you get into combat, just keep piling into more, I didn't find wyches frail at all because they were either in transport or in combat.

Altho the one time they were left in the open a whole squad got wiped

They are completely playable now, you will see many people playing them, with our Vehicles being ALOT stronger for sure melee is easier to get into.

I just feel you can do more damage over all and hold objectives better with something other than Wychs.




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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sun Jun 04 2017, 21:37

@amishprn86 wrote:
@RedRegicide wrote:
Played wych cult yesterday, heres what I found:

Reavers are still mean. Gave them +2 mv and they were soaring

Blade vanes on veichles are actually really useful

Give your big units the +1 S, it worked really well

Once you get into combat, just keep piling into more, I didn't find wyches frail at all because they were either in transport or in combat.

Altho the one time they were left in the open a whole squad got wiped

They are completely playable now, you will see many people playing them, with our Vehicles being ALOT stronger for sure melee is easier to get into.

I just feel you can do more damage over all and hold objectives better with something other than Wychs.




Agreed.

@RedRegicide - How did you find bladevanes on vehicles really useful?

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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Fri Jun 09 2017, 17:02

I meant the venoms and raiders bladevanes were decent. 4+ hit, 4+ wound, +4 save for meqs. Not great odds but they usually helped in combats rather than only an overwatxh absorber

The no flee ability, do those stack? Eg) they have to escape both my wyches and succubi, needing to seperate rolls?

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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Fri Jun 09 2017, 17:05

only once per wych unit in cc

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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sun Jun 11 2017, 15:05

Played my wych cult today against CSM.

Well, i could have won if reavers and ravager make those shooting attacks against renegade knight.
Wyches work pretty well, survive little longer and fight harder due to special weapons.

If only i haven`t this dice cancer...

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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sun Jun 11 2017, 15:31

what did you roll?

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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sun Jun 11 2017, 20:00

@CptMetal wrote:
what did you roll?

Lot`s of 1 and 2 with shooting. Saves were not better either.
And those terminators under sorcerer is realy strong right now. Yet still my opponent cry all the way: Nah, CSM can`t do anything. Blah-blah-blah. Dragons now sucks. Boo-hoo. Where`s chaos marks?  Smile

And i waste almost an hour to explain how charge\overwatch work Evil or Very Mad

I used one squad of ten with nets in a raider and two smaller units in a venom with hydras. Agonisers. Agonisers everywhere...
I give big squad hypex, two others serpentin and grave lotus. Succubus with glave and adrenalight. Beastmaster with splintermind and lots of khymeras. Reavers with painbringer. All work pretty well until turn 3-4. Then thing get ugly with those saves.

And i cheated a little. I didn`t have copy of index, so i just memorised all the stuff. Not quite good i must say Very Happy . My bikes and raider also has -1to hit like Venoms Smile But it was an accident )

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