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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sat May 27 2017, 20:23

It seems to me that if you land a venom close enough to the enemy that you can disembark and charge on your next turn, it is also vulnerable to being charged by them instead. At best you'll have to fly away and be unable to disembark, and at worst it gets destroyed and so does everyone in it, because it isn't difficult to surround a venom so that you can't disembark within 3" and more than 1" away from any enemies. You could probably do it with just 3 models!

Of course I'm still thinking in outdated terms, because it doesn't work like that in the new game, and I don't have the full picture, and yadda yadda, but it would be nice if those good gentlemen from FLG and others could refrain from mocking me for my ignorance and suggest instead -- with some patience, as I am slow of mind -- why such concerns ought not to trouble my thoughts at all.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sat May 27 2017, 20:58

well said but I´m afraid they wont tell us more...

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@miral
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sat May 27 2017, 22:56

We are speculating on teasers and FLG is not allowed to tell us more. But I am with Reece on this one, it is stupid to argue with our little knowledge. June 17th is the day we see if everything is as awesome as they tell us.
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KiloFiX
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Thu Jun 01 2017, 10:32

M8 WS3+ BS3+ S3 T3 W1 A1 Ld7 Sv6+

Splinter Pistol - Poison 4+
Hekatarii Knife +1 Attack (so base 2)
Dark light Grenade D6 - S4 AP-1 D1

Dodge: 4++ in combat only

No Escape: Opponent needs to win rolloff to retreat

Power from Pain
Turn 1: FnP 6+ (there is no 5+)
Turn 2: Reroll charge
Turn 3: Add 1 to hit
Turn 4: Immune to morale
Turn 5: -1 Ld to enemy within 6"

Combat Drugs
1: +1S
2: +1A
3: +2M
4: +1T
5: +1Hit
6: +1Ld

Option of 1 Wych weapon, or 3 if 10 models:
All S-User and AP-1
Hydra D1 A+1 reroll wound
Flail D1 A+1 reroll hit
Shardnet n Impailer D2

Wyches still have a problem with low strength but at least can fire Splinter in CC in own turn shooting phase.
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KiloFiX
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Thu Jun 01 2017, 10:39

Succubus has WS2+ W5 A4

Archive Glaive is S+2 AP-3
Agonized is Poison 4+ AP-2

Succubus also gives nearby Wyches reroll to Hit of 1s

Has 4++ even outside of combat

Will be source of damage while the rest of the Wyches mostly just screen.

Remember you can Disembark, charge with the Transport (Shock Prow) to soak Overwatch then charge the Wyches and Succubus.

Raider is M14 T5 W10 Sv4+/5++
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Thu Jun 01 2017, 14:09

We get to pick drugs now. That's super helpful

Damage output went up, because we can shoot too

Other armies have been nerfed, crons, tau, marines all had OP formations, so I think wyches will do okay

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Thu Jun 01 2017, 15:24

As I already own shedloads of Wyches I think I'm going to give them a whirl just to see if they are actually viable. Probable build will be 10 Wyches, 3 x Hydra Gauntlets, Hekatrix with PGL and Power Sword all in a Raider. Then I'll have another unit of 9 with 1 x Hydra Gauntlets, Hekatrix with PGL and Power Sword and a Succubus with Archite Glaive in another Raider. Pile them all in to the middle of the enemy lines on turn 3, use the Raiders or some Hellions or something to draw out Overwatch and keep the Succubus in the middle to buff both units.

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Thu Jun 01 2017, 15:51

What about bloodbrides? They have more attacks

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Thu Jun 01 2017, 16:07

4 points extra per model though. Maybe. Will see how points are when writing lists.

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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 06:03

@Count Adhemar wrote:
use the Raiders or some Hellions or something to draw out Overwatch

The raiders I understand but why the hellions? They are more expensive per model and they have the same defenses?
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 07:09

@|Meavar wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
use the Raiders or some Hellions or something to draw out Overwatch

The raiders I understand but why the hellions? They are more expensive per model and they have the same defenses?

Hellions actually have better defense against overwatch this edition than Wyches, the wyches retained their 6+ but hellions are now 5+.
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Devilogical
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 07:20

I think my beloved wyches got better.
Their luck of strenth and touthness is no surprise, but they have been buffed for sure. No escape can be realy powerfull and Succubi is now not bad HQ choice at all. Time for Wyck Cult army guys!

But i have a question.
Can we run\flatout in the shooting phase now?
If someone shoots at us with pistols in close combat can we use Dodge? Or they shoots in shooting phase? I don`t get it.

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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 07:33

@Devilogical wrote:
Can we run\flatout in the shooting phase now?
This is now called advance and you do it during the movement phase instead of moving twice (once in the movement and once in the shooting like in 7e). Units that have advanced cannot shoot or charge that turn (unless something excuses it like firing assault weapons at a -1 to their to hit roll).

Quote :
If someone shoots at us with pistols in close combat can we use Dodge? Or they shoots in shooting phase? I don`t get it.
RAW states that you can only dodge attacks made in the fight sub phase so you can only dodge melee attacks, pistols now attack during the shooting phase and thus dodge doesn't protect against it.
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Demantiae
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 14:28

If you charge the Raider alongside your Wyches (which you should do first anyway to absorb the overwatch) then you should kill enough of the unit that the incoming pistol fire next turn won't be a big issue. Plus if your Raider's base is 1" away from the enemy it's prow is going to be right over their heads. Technically it'll still be the closest unit and pistols (at least the majority of them) will have to shoot that and not your Wyches. Have to shoot the closest unit, drawn from the unit itself, not it's base. Your Wyches will be 1" away around the edge of the combat, your Raider stretches right over them into their own unit.

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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 15:20

@ demantiae Not sure if I can convince my opponent to play that way, but it is correct. I like your way of thinking.
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 20:28

Why a power sword instead of agonizer? It seems like the strength limitations would still push us to the agonizer.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 22:50

Ive played some 8th games and my friends did as well, i didnt personally play Wychs but my friend did.

They still have the problem of killing units, they can get to combat easier but with only a couple ap weapons you most likely want attack or strength for drugs to make sure they get more damage it.

They are best taken in units of 5 (2 weapons vs 3 in a 10man, so 2x5mans gets 4weapons) for sure take Agoniser and

Raiders/Venoms ARE survival enough to move turn 1, get out turn 2 and charge the Raider/Venom for overwatch.

Venoms might be better for Wychs b.c it gets a -1 to hit.


I feel this is the best loadout for them

5man: Venom
Hekatrix: Agoniser, Blast Pistol
Hydra gauntlets (you can on turn 3 have +1 to hit so no reason for Razorfails)
+1 attack or +1 strength drugs (strength if you are facing average t4-5 infantry)

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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 23:00

It looks like 1 weapon for up to 9, then 3x at 10+. Wouldn't they be better at 10 man squads?
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 23:18

Hekatrix gets 1, any other Wych can take one, then +1 for 10 Wychs

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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 23:24

Oh. I see.
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Devilogical
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sat Jun 03 2017, 07:52

@amishprn86 wrote:

I feel this is the best loadout for them

5man: Venom
Hekatrix: Agoniser, Blast Pistol
Hydra gauntlets (you can on turn 3 have +1 to hit so no reason for Razorfails)
+1 attack or +1 strength drugs (strength if you are facing average t4-5 infantry)

Damn it. I have plenty of razorflails since 5th edition and only like 2 hydra gaunlets and 2 nets.
Haven`t recognise that my favorite sword-whips got less effective. Sad

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helvexis
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sat Jun 03 2017, 10:54

@amishprn86 wrote:
Hekatrix gets 1, any other Wych can take one, then +1 for 10 Wychs

the rule says they can take up to two further wych weapons at 10 models so it should be 3 wych weapons + the hekatrix(agonizer lets be honest) weapon at 10man squad
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sat Jun 03 2017, 14:12

@helvexis wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Hekatrix gets 1, any other Wych can take one, then +1 for 10 Wychs

the rule says they can take up to two further wych weapons at 10 models so it should be 3 wych weapons + the hekatrix(agonizer lets be honest) weapon at 10man squad

I think it is up to 1 if five, up to 2 if 10.
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Demantiae
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sat Jun 03 2017, 15:10

You take 1 wyche weapon for the squad and upto 2 further wyche weapons if the squad is 10 strong. The Hekatrix can also take an agonizer or power sword.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Sat Jun 03 2017, 18:26

@Devilogical wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:

I feel this is the best loadout for them

5man: Venom
Hekatrix: Agoniser, Blast Pistol
Hydra gauntlets (you can on turn 3 have +1 to hit so no reason for Razorfails)
+1 attack or +1 strength drugs (strength if you are facing average t4-5 infantry)

Damn it. I have plenty of razorflails since 5th edition and only like 2 hydra gaunlets and 2 nets.
Haven`t recognise that my favorite sword-whips got less effective. Sad

If Wychs didnt need a 3+ and a 2+ (on turn 3) to hit then i'd say use the razorfials but reroll 2 or 3 dice, compare to re-roll 4-5 for me isnt worth it. You could use the Razorfails as CCW's tho.


2@10
I dbl check you are correct, i knew Bloodbrides did that but i just got 7th and 8th rules mixed up.

There are so many rules XD

I still think Venom in 5man's are best b.c he venom is -1 to hit against them.

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