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 New Whych Changes

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dbw
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PostSubject: New Whych Changes   Thu May 18 2017, 02:32

found here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/17/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-drukhari-may17/

Anyway, how do we feel about these changes, will Whyches become the staple troop unit or become equally as powerful as Kabalites in some matchups giving us players the choice between melee or ranged oriented troop choices?

Also Drukhari is a cool new name, thoughts on that too?
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Thu May 18 2017, 02:35

Honestly, saying that our dominatrexes are one of the most improved units in the new edition is...excitingly bold to say the least. I can't make a verdict before 8th drops, but I'm confident that Wyches will be at least acceptable troop choices for an assault DE army.

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CommorraghPleb
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Thu May 18 2017, 07:04

Probably not, GW can talk all they want about how they're now super buffed but until i see the actual changes, there's no getting away from the fact its a S/T 3, 1 base Atk model that wears close to nothing and wants to fight them up close with a kitchen knife. Oh yes, now with a new special rule No Escape! Thats right, for wyches there's no escaping slaanesh once they enter the battlefield.
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Thu May 18 2017, 09:14

Based on the evidence to date, they seem slightly worse than they are now.

There is more overwatch risk, and enemies can fall back out of combat (albeit not as frequently as against other assault units). Wych weapon changes seem a wash with current options. Any extra damage they can do with their pistols while locked in combat is counteracted by an enemy with pistols being able to do the same vs their T3 and no armour.

The assertion they are a heavily buffed unit might mean there is some other benefit, but right now they look their current issues are not resolved at all with our faction teaser, with some new mechanics that work against them.

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drdoom222222
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Thu May 18 2017, 09:26

what the shardnet and impaler does will help decide if wyches are worse or better than they are now, me thinks? If it adds +1 to the roll off or gives you a reroll for no escape, maybe they might be ok.........nah who am I kidding, unless they get some serious buffs from power from pain and combat drugs as well their are still gonna be sub par imo... Sad
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Thu May 18 2017, 10:25

I'm looking at the new Wyches, and without the benefit of seeing all of the new 40k rules and the new Wych rules in full, what I've got doesn't fill me with an idea that they're better.
If anything, they STILL have the core problem that Wyches today have - they're decent looking in combat, but don't have anywhere near the survivability to actually get INTO combat.
Wyches today are a decent tarpit IF they can actually get to combat. The new No Escape rule seems to add to their use as a tarpit, but theres no reveal on anything that will actually get them there easier without being shot to hell.
To be honest, I'm not seeing anything in the new rules yet that balance shooting and combat back out as compative phases.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Thu May 18 2017, 10:32

Yeah, nothing in the article really gives me confidence about Wyches in 8e but FLG are convinced they are great and they have actually played the game so fingers crossed!

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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Thu May 18 2017, 10:42

I agree I think they will be sub par for dealing damage unless they get a serious buff somewhere. But their special rule of no escape does give them a use, which if priced correctly will give them a battlefield role.
The -1 armour save sounds nice for the razorflails and hydrogauntlets but unless it goes for the complete unit and is really cheap it won't be enough to say they can now dish out damage in close combat and are one of the top 3 buffed units. But if their price went down or you can pick your drugs, I think they might be quite decent. I think the no escape rule even if not failsafe is worth quite a bit.
I think we need more info to say one way or the other, there has to be more then was revealed.
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Britishgrotesque
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Thu May 18 2017, 14:18

A lot of the problems we are having is, we haven't seen anything about wyches, other than they still have weapons, and they have this new rule. We know hydro and razorflails have -1ap, but what about everything else, what if wyches have baseline poison blades, 2 attacks and dark eldar get a buffed up version of power from pain to survive shooting phase?

What if we can charge in vehicles, get out, and continue in cc?

It's all pure speculation. maybe I'm just less jaded because I've only been playing since January Very Happy
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Thu May 18 2017, 15:57

Well, they will probably hit on a flat 3+ which a buff. I dont think they will have a to hit worse then space marine. And i really hope both Succubi and Lelith hit on a 2+.

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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Fri May 19 2017, 08:04

In the comments on FLG, Reece says they do get into combat just fine and FLG played 8th "to death". I truely believe that wyches in Raiders will do fine. We can't say anything because we don't know anything about how 8th works, but so much: average charging distance is eight instead of seven, as base contact was replaced with 1 inch. Then, individual movement with the hint that eldar are faster. Wyches ARE faster... so I think with the new Raiders, they will be quite mobile! They have some rend, they have pistols (and be honest, who except SM and dedicated assault units carry around freaking pistols? As SM only have one base attack, that makes up for that. Do you want to charge those with wyches anyway?) ... I have 30, but only ever painted 10. I think I paint my other 20 wyches until 8th Smile
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Fri May 19 2017, 08:08

Orks have pistols...and CSM, and wolves. But yeah, those units that do have pistols pretty much always beated Wyches to shreads. Except maybe Boyz, but those at least have crappy BS.

Also new rules for wound allocation would mean we can remove dead models from overwatch from the back. Thats buff for charge distance.

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Tue May 23 2017, 15:12

I won't voice am opinion until I know and play the new game. Not enough info.

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@miral
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Tue May 23 2017, 15:45

My very first list will consist of wyches in raiders, mandrakes, the bomber and lots of hellions. Exactly that Wink
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Demantiae
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Today at 13:38

What we do know is this: Wyches will always hit first when they charge. The profiles that have been revealed show they have AP -1 weapons (across the whole squad or just a couple of models?). They have a 50/50 chance to tar pit units when the game is built around leaving combat freely. They have the 4++ in combat. You can disembark from a transport and charge the same turn. Vehicles can charge into combat and take overwatch. DE vehicles are going to be super fast (maybe 36" movement base?) and can leave combat and just fly over units at will.

What can we extrapolate from the above? DE squads, Wyches in particular can be anywhere on the board you need them at a moments notice. They're safe inside their (now comparatively tougher) transports until you need them to lock down a target. When they go in, the vehicle takes the overwatch that would otherwise murder them. They can do ok damage to the unit they charge but they can potentially hold them up. Who will they be good against? Well not berzerkers, they won't cut through their armour and will likely get eaten by what promises to be the best cc unit in the game. But how about genestealers? They have insane speed and crazy rend on their claws (6's to wound are AP -4). They'd otherwise rip through armoured units, but not wyches because that save is a 4++. And being not hugely armoured the genestealer would take a chunk of damage to a wyche charge. And if combat draws out there's a chance (hopefully you can increase your odds with wargear) that you can pin down that superfast unit. Same might be true of ork boys. Any cc unit that hits hard, has potentially decent rend and is fairly low armoured is going to be the target of choice for the wyche.

Are Wyches going to be good now? Maybe? Will they be ok? Probably. Unless GW went back to the old school and made Wyches elite CC units they're still going to be a Troop choice and thus probably just ok, like most other Troop choices. I think they'll have more niches now in which they can have a meaningful impact but I suspect their use may be situational and against specific opponents.

We'll see what other rules they get soon enough. Hopefully a way to increase their odds of tar-pitting and hopefully some nice combat drugs rules. It'd be interesting to see if a PfP mechanic has remained at all.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Today at 14:10

@Demantiae wrote:
What we do know is this: Wyches will always hit first when they charge. The profiles that have been revealed show they have AP -1 weapons (across the whole squad or just a couple of models?). They have a 50/50 chance to tar pit units when the game is built around leaving combat freely. They have the 4++ in combat. You can disembark from a transport and charge the same turn. Vehicles can charge into combat and take overwatch. DE vehicles are going to be super fast (maybe 36" movement base?) and can leave combat and just fly over units at will.

Where has it said that they always hit first?

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Today at 15:22

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Demantiae wrote:
What we do know is this: Wyches will always hit first when they charge. The profiles that have been revealed show they have AP -1 weapons (across the whole squad or just a couple of models?). They have a 50/50 chance to tar pit units when the game is built around leaving combat freely. They have the 4++ in combat. You can disembark from a transport and charge the same turn. Vehicles can charge into combat and take overwatch. DE vehicles are going to be super fast (maybe 36" movement base?) and can leave combat and just fly over units at will.

Where has it said that they always hit first?

Attackers always hit first.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New Whych Changes   Today at 15:27

D'oh! Missed the 'when they charge' bit. Nothing to see here. Move along.

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