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Dalamar
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PostSubject: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 14:58

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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 15:12

I'm slowly losing hope in 8th..it feels like it's just going to be Age of Sigmar with a setting change.
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Anarchistscourge
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 15:39

It does look like the rules are extremely similar to AoS, but i still think it will feel very different. If anyone has played both WoW and SWTOR mmo's you will see that the basic mechanics are very similar but both provide very different play.

With keywords, it looks like their will be Force, Faction, Subfaction and Types. For example a dark eldar army may have....AELDARI (force) DARK ELDAR (factions) and then maybe WYCH CULT, KABAL, COVEN (for the various sub factions).

Having never played AoS im quite optimistic about 8th and how it will play.

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 15:40

It appears that 'slow and purposeful' is no longer a thing... or at least, no longer a thing that rubric marines have. It makes one wonder whether or not the standard rules just allow everyone to charge after firing rapid fire/heavy weapons.

In other news, a full unit of rubric marines with warpflamers looks like it will be *nasty*.

It also looks like force weapons have been greatly simplified - instead of casting a psychic power on the weapon to give it ID, the force weapon just does D3 wounds. It could mean that the huskblade stats will likely be -2 AP, 1D3 wounds as well.


Last edited by krayd on Thu May 11 2017, 15:46; edited 1 time in total
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Anarchistscourge
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 15:43

Almost all factions will have a unit like this. Take the weapon rules from yesterday, they mean sterguard can now deepsritke in, shoot their combi weapons, and then charge to finish off.....and then use the combi weapons again rinse and repeat.

Saying almost because i cant actually think of a DE unit that will be this good

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Kinnay
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 15:52

Why is it more logical to assume that everyone can charge after firing rapid fire or heavy weapons, though, than to conclude that Rubrics simply cannot do so anymore, since the rule is missing in their data sheet?

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 15:58

But the Rubics got the rule "All ist Dust" and therefor get no penalty for shooting heavy weapons when moving.
And they are slower.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 16:10

So all "Universal Special rules" are gone.
So no more Fleet, Poison weapons, Night Vision, hit and run etc...

I am hopeful the individual dataslates will add their own version of these special rules, but it is far from certain. This is GW after all, and we play Dark Eldar

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Anarchistscourge
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 16:13

See im the opposite and hope that specialist rules remain the same throughout factions. One of the reasons i found 7th a hassle is that there are very similar rules with totally different names. Rending for example and then bladestorm (pseudo rending). If they keep the rules the same but just put them in with individual factions it will makes things much better

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 16:16

There are special rules. They are just all (or nearly all) printed on the data sheet.
I´m actually thinking that this is a great idea!
Print the pages you need and don´t carry a big ass library around.
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 16:24

@Kinnay wrote:
Why is it more logical to assume that everyone can charge after firing rapid fire or heavy weapons, though, than to conclude that Rubrics simply cannot do so anymore, since the rule is missing in their data sheet?

No assumptions were made. The term 'whether or not' includes both possibilities.
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Athalkar
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 18:43

@krayd wrote:
It also looks like force weapons have been greatly simplified - instead of casting a psychic power on the weapon to give it ID, the force weapon just does D3 wounds. It could mean that the huskblade stats will likely be -2 AP, 1D3 wounds as well.


Actually, note that the "sword" is -3 ap; so assuming the huskblade keeps the instant death like effect it might just be S user, -3 ap and d3 wounds.

Not withstanding the perk from all is dust, Rubric marines invul is not as good as it was. I wonder if we will see the effectiveness of invul going down generally. (Also remembering that every psycher will have smite which ignore invul saves.)

Odd that the movements are different within the same unit.

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SCP Yeeman
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 19:22

That Aspiring Sorcerer might not be "part" of the unit and may act independently. They did reference the Kroot Shaper yesterday who is the sergeant upgrade for Kroot. Maybe all characters are like that now?
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Dalamar
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 19:51

@Athalkar wrote:

Not withstanding the perk from all is dust, Rubric marines invul is not as good as it was.  I wonder if we will see the effectiveness of invul going down generally.

Remember that they add 1 to save rolls against damage characteristic of 1.  I would assume that is for the invuln as well.  If we assume for examples sake that the only difference between a force sword and a power sword is the damage characteristic, then we get

force sword vs rubric marine:
6+ armor save or 5+ invuln.

power sword vs rubric marine:
effective 5+ armor save or 4+ invuln
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 19:56

What I don't understand is how power lv works. The cost is idicated by multiples of 5. What if I want just 3 more marines?
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Athalkar
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 20:24

Good question with power levels- I assume its similar to AoS but I know nothing about AoS soooo-- But they said they explain power levels tomorrow.

However, if the a la carte point system is gone, does that mean that sybarite (and the like) are going to be standard for every unit? At first I didn't think anything of it because sergeant type models were automatically included in the the Chaos SM infantry datasheets (true for the aspiring sorc. for thousand sons/rubric marines.)
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 20:36

@Athalkar wrote:
Good question with power levels-  I assume its similar to AoS but I know nothing about AoS soooo-- But they said they explain power levels tomorrow.  

However, if the a la carte point system is gone, does that mean that sybarite (and the like) are going to be standard  for every unit?  At first I didn't think anything of it because sergeant type models were automatically included in the the Chaos SM infantry datasheets (true for the aspiring sorc. for thousand sons/rubric marines.)    

La Carte system is not gone. Power level is for getting approximate/quick matches for more narrative-based play. Apparently, they're addressing the points-based system for matched play later. I imagine that there will probably be a separate index for each faction with all point costs for each model and piece of wargear.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 20:43

No points costs on the datasheets themselves is going to be problematic, I'd think. Do they expect matched play to be rare or something? I doubt I'll ever play any other way.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 20:47

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
No points costs on the datasheets themselves is going to be problematic, I'd think. Do they expect matched play to be rare or something? I doubt I'll ever play any other way.

It might not be too bad. I can see how having all the points in one big chart (or 2 charts - one for models and one for armory) might be more convenient than having to flip back and forth through the book.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 20:56

It just seems to me that by not having points listed on the main datasheet, they're sort of discouraging matched play as the standard of play in favor of super simple rules. If 90% of players start switching to super simple rules, so I can't find a matched play pickup game at your typical FLGS, then I don't see much point in continuing to play.

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mika
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 21:04

I think it's done so they can update points as needed yearly in an extra book like Generals Handbook instead of updating the datasheets.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Thu May 11 2017, 21:24

Or they didnt want to show point costs yet.

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mynamelegend
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Fri May 12 2017, 10:48

A little bird told me that the reason is because, like AoS, the datasheets will be available for free on their website... but the points for Matched games (that is to say, the classic points we know and love) will only be available in codices.

If AoS is anything to go by, expect those to sell for about $20 a pop.
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BizarreShowbiz
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Fri May 12 2017, 11:16

@mika wrote:
I think it's done so they can update points as needed yearly in an extra book like Generals Handbook instead of updating the datasheets.

This is the most likely reason.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Datasheets   Fri May 12 2017, 22:35

Confirmed in their points article, points are separate so that codices can remain relevant and they can change points as new units or weapons are discovered to be under or overcosted. I like this change, personally.

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