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 8e - DE rumors (apply salt here)

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krayd
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PostSubject: 8e - DE rumors (apply salt here)   Wed May 10 2017, 18:52

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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - DE rumors (apply salt here)   Wed May 10 2017, 19:03

Not so enthusiastic about jinking. A weapon with high enough modifier just ignores it.
On the other hand is a 2+ against bolters.
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Devilogical
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - DE rumors (apply salt here)   Wed May 10 2017, 19:08

I have a lot of salt with previous news, but this one seems... not bad, actualy.

Or did i missed something? If we use jink it will get 2+ armor for our raiders\venoms. We lack of wound on vehicles, true, but it`s not a bad way to deliver troops to fight.

Yeah, melta and laser cannons will still pop our transports like baloons, but other weapons became less effective.

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - DE rumors (apply salt here)   Wed May 10 2017, 19:10

@Logan Frost wrote:
Not so enthusiastic about jinking. A weapon with high enough modifier just ignores it.
On the other hand is a 2+ against bolters.

Well, I'm 99% certain that the 'shadowfield' referenced here is actually referring to Nightshields.

So, with that in mind, a jinking raider with nightshields would get a 4+ armor save vs. lascannons, which isn't bad. However, I'm still hoping that jinking/nightshields affect to hit rolls rather than armor save.
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Devilogical
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - DE rumors (apply salt here)   Wed May 10 2017, 19:13

[quote="krayd"]
@Logan Frost wrote:
Not so enthusiastic about jinking. A weapon with high enough modifier just ignores it.

However, I'm still hoping that jinking/nightshields affect to hit rolls rather than armor save.

That would be neat.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - DE rumors (apply salt here)   Wed May 10 2017, 19:35

I agree that I read "Shadow field" as "nightshields" but I have been wondering what the actual Shadow field will do.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - DE rumors (apply salt here)   Wed May 10 2017, 20:39

i think to hit rolls as well, physical cover adds to armor and intangible stuff like popping smoke give minuses to hit.
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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - DE rumors (apply salt here)   Wed May 10 2017, 22:24

So a Raider gets more wounds than a dreadnaught? Colour me sceptical - especially if Jink adds to the armour save. Honestly, as written, when would you not Jink?
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - DE rumors (apply salt here)   Wed May 10 2017, 22:43

@Creeping Darkness wrote:
So a Raider gets more wounds than a dreadnaught? Colour me sceptical - especially if Jink adds to the armour save. Honestly, as written, when would you not Jink?

Well, it would make a certain amount of sense for a Raider, which is considerably larger than a dreadnought, to get more wounds, but be less durable (lower T, lower armor save).
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drdoom222222
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - DE rumors (apply salt here)   Thu May 11 2017, 09:21

I have a feeling raiders and venoms will be toughness 6, which makes sense in my head/previous previewed stuff (T7 dread etc).
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - DE rumors (apply salt here)   Thu May 11 2017, 11:24

While a raider is larger, its potentially the same or even less wounds thanks to more exposed areas and points of vulnerability.

I am expecting T5 for Venoms, maybe 6 for the raider. 5 wounds on a venom, 7 on the raider. Venom will have 4+ save, ditto the raider.

Flickerfields will simply mean the save is never worse than 5+, night shields will add +1

Jink IMO is likely to be a thing of the past and you will simply gain + to saves based on how far you move


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Imateria
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - DE rumors (apply salt here)   Thu May 11 2017, 13:17

Whilst the rumours look OK, I really doubt them. We already know that Smoke Launchers are -1 to hit when targeted so it stands to reason that Jink and Nightshields would work in the same way rather than boost armour.

@Massaen wrote:
While a raider is larger, its potentially the same or even less wounds thanks to more exposed areas and points of vulnerability.

I am expecting T5 for Venoms, maybe 6 for the raider. 5 wounds on a venom, 7 on the raider. Venom will have 4+ save, ditto the raider.

Flickerfields will simply mean the save is never worse than 5+, night shields will add +1

Jink IMO is likely to be a thing of the past and you will simply gain + to saves based on how far you move


That looks very fragile, I fully expect the Venom and Raider to be T6, Ravager T7 with 6, 8 and 10 wounds respectively, though agree on the 4+ armour. We've yet to see how invuln's will work, but I doubt it would be a case of "can't modify armour below X", models that have better invulns than armour saves wouldn't work.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - DE rumors (apply salt here)   Thu May 11 2017, 16:28

No way will we get T7 vehicles - With the Russ at T8, the dread at T7, a ravager *might* make 7 but I doubt it. T6 seems likely and 5 for a venom seems probable.

Again on wounds - based on the Russ and Dread - there is no way we will get 10 wounds. I cant see them breaking 8 on the ravager and 5-6 on a venom seems likely

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - DE rumors (apply salt here)   Fri May 12 2017, 02:24

@Massaen wrote:
No way will we get T7 vehicles - With the Russ at T8, the dread at T7, a ravager *might* make 7 but I doubt it. T6 seems likely and 5 for a venom seems probable.

Again on wounds - based on the Russ and Dread - there is no way we will get 10 wounds. I cant see them breaking 8 on the ravager and 5-6 on a venom seems likely
Assuming that they are converting it as AV10= T6, AV11= T7 and so on, the mean average of the Dreads AV is 11 and the Russ 12, which would be why they are T7 and 8, that would make our vehicles T6 and 7, though you're proabably right about the wounds though I think it might be 6 plus for all vehicles as high damage dealing atni-tank weapons are going to be in vogue this edition.

The Morkanaught of course doesn't follow this pattern as it should be T9.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - DE rumors (apply salt here)   Fri May 12 2017, 08:13

@Massaen wrote:
No way will we get T7 vehicles - With the Russ at T8, the dread at T7, a ravager *might* make 7 but I doubt it. T6 seems likely and 5 for a venom seems probable.

Again on wounds - based on the Russ and Dread - there is no way we will get 10 wounds. I cant see them breaking 8 on the ravager and 5-6 on a venom seems likely

My guess is that you will get the following rough translations:

AV14 4HP = T8 12W 3+ (Morkanaut was still only T8)
AV13 3HP = T8 10W 3+
AV12 3HP = T7 8W 3+ (as per the Dread profile)
AV11 3HP = T7 7W 4+
AV10 3HP = T6 7W 4+
AV10 2HP = T5 6W 4+

So that pretty much agrees with your assessments. I have avoided starting number crunching on partial information, because I could be wrong and there could be other mechanics we don't yet know. Will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

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drdoom222222
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - DE rumors (apply salt here)   Fri May 12 2017, 12:18

I would assume a venom would be T6 with less wounds than a raider, it won't make sense to make it T5 imo. In my mind, Av= Toughness and HP= wounds. I'm hoping the De vehicles stats will look like this:

venom - T6/ 5-6 wounds / 4+
Raider - T6 / 7-8 wounds / 4+
Ravagers T6/T7? / 8-9 wounds /4+

But this guessing at this stage, we will just have to wait and see....
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - DE rumors (apply salt here)   Fri May 12 2017, 20:35

Well taking into account a little tidbit early on saying that no vehicle will have the possibility of being one shot and lascannon does D6 damage I would think that even the venom would have more wounds then 6 ... Would it be a bit more appropriate to think that venoms raiders and ravagers would actually have a higher wound count then the Russ or dread but at a lower toughness giving a wider range of weapons the ability to wound on something better then the "6" every small arm will have against the Russ and dread ... So it would stand to reason (at least for me) that the venom would have 10-12 wounds but be t5-t6 the raider would have 12 wounds and be t6 and the ravager wound have possibly 8 wounds at t7 because it is the toughest vehicle we own... Short of the Voidraven​ and Tantalus would seem to fit the "balance" of all unit they keep talking about more things can wound them (like now) bit it will take more then one units worth of dedicated shooting to kill it (unlike current) unless that unit happens to be anti tank, but this is speculation as we know absolutely nothing about our army except for a verification glimpse at Drahzar ...
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - DE rumors (apply salt here)   Mon May 15 2017, 16:02

And remember with those t5 and 5 wounds I hear people talking about, that means that lasguns only need 15 hits to kill us. Are you serious, a normal squad of 15 imperial guard, (some of the worst troops in the game) with lasguns (some of the worst guns) at short range will take us out? Depending on our save they might have to get an order to double their shots.
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