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 8e - Weapons part 2

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Dalamar
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PostSubject: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 15:18

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Dalamar
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 15:37

They better be spreading out some twin-linked, or give factions that don't have it other just as useful rules.

Heat-lances just got awesome, and we don't even know what the lance rule is yet.

Looks like old pie plate weapons aren't quite as frightening. battle cannon vs Warriors out of cover assuming 4+ to hit, 3 hits, 5 wounds, 5 dead. If you are in cover you will at least get a 6+ armor save.
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 15:48

@Dalamar wrote:
They better be spreading out some twin-linked, or give factions that don't have it other just as useful rules.

Heat-lances just got awesome, and we don't even know what the lance rule is yet.

Looks like old pie plate weapons aren't quite as frightening. battle cannon vs Warriors out of cover assuming 4+ to hit, 3 hits, 5 wounds, 5 dead. If you are in cover you will at least get a 6+ armor save.

Actually, if you hit only 3 models, wouldn't the excess wounds have to be allocated to the models that were hit, resulting in only 3 dead (and if the 3 are in cover, some of them would have to make multiple saves vs. multiple wounds)?

However, it seems like this could be *really* nasty when aimed at single models, like monstrous creatures and vehicles.
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Anarchistscourge
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 15:48

I think were going to hate going against Space marines. Twin linked doubling the shots, reusable combi weapons and heavy bolters doubling their shots means bad news for the true kin.

Also Krayd is correct, the damage part of the profile is applied to each model after wounding (much like current d weapon rules). So no where near as bad as templates.

I was unsure about them getting rid of templates as i liked the scatter mechanic, but seeing all the rule announcments the idea of no template is starting to grow on me.

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Bardicnonsense
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 15:50

I know we haven't seen anything on our vehicles or poison rules yet, but with these rules I could really honestly see hordes of MSU kabalites embedded with heavy weapons swarming over and through terrain being a viable list, complemented correctly. They'd actually get some protection against all these heavy weapons that could once dig them out easily.
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 15:54

Talos with twin-linked splinter cannons and twin-linked liquifier guns, depending on weapon stats, might be *really* nasty at close range.
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 16:01

This......




......is horrific. Utterly.

Thats a possible 18 wounds from a single shot.

Gives me tingles as to what some other weapons might be capable of, but with Scatter going the way of the Zoat, I don't think the days of shooty-shooty-death-kill are over just yet.....
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 16:07

Well considering we (currently) have almost no twin -linking or blasts and literally zero combi-weapons this was a total bore

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 16:12

Assuming that we still get 2 shots at 12" with splinter rifles, that spinter racks are still a thing that grants twin-linking, and that you can fire all weapons from a raider, then that means that a unit of 10 kabalite warriors might get 20 shots at 12" and 40 shots at 6"
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Anarchistscourge
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 16:17

Guessing you haven't seen the rumour that Raiders will have effectively 5 fire points to fire Splinter rifles from?

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Dalamar
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 16:18

even better the original article had twin linked giving double shots at half range.  It has been corrected that they just get double the shots period the end. So that profile for twin heavy bolter is already doubled from 3 to 6. when the article first hit it read as 6 shots the 12 at half range.


Last edited by Dalamar on Wed May 10 2017, 16:25; edited 1 time in total
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 16:20

Please please please, let us have twin linked gun boats.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 16:25

Neat.

Idk what else to say about this it's just weapon stats lol

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 16:31

@Anarchistscourge wrote:
Guessing you haven't seen the rumour that Raiders will have effectively 5 fire points to fire Splinter rifles from?

I have, but even Faeit, who posted the rumor in the first place, posted an addendum, noting that the entire rumor list was pure guesswork, and that some of the rumors are completely wrong.

So I'm disregarding it until I see proof otherwise.
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Anarchistscourge
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 16:39

Ah I didn't see the addendum. Fair enough. I really want both Raiders and venoms to be usable this edition. Especially as I just bought 3 venoms about 6 weeks ago and plan for another 5

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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 16:44

For calculating wounds from weapons don't forget to account for models lost from failed morale tests. It's going to be imperative that we keep forcing heavy damage onto units each turn.

Im scared for how many lances we'll need if vehicles are getting all sorts of boosts

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Dalamar
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 16:48

So I think we know all of or most of the AP scale now.

AP1 = -4
AP2 = -3
AP3 = -2
AP4 = -1
AP5 = 0

So the question is will the chart continue?

AP6 = +1
AP- = +2
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Kinnay
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 17:21

@Squidmaster wrote:
This......



......is horrific. Utterly.

Thats a possible 18 wounds from a single shot.

About half of GW's Facebook team's replies has been them explaining that no, the wounds do not multiply with the hits. You roll a D6 for the shots, then roll to hit for all of them – and that's the maximum number of possible casualties in the target unit. Every one of those individually hit models can then get up to D3 wounds that do not spill over, so a battlecannon will at most kill 6 dudes very, very dead.

Unless you meant the battle cannon against single high-wound models, because in that case yes, you should be able to cause up to 18 wounds on a single model!

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 17:33

However, those 18 wounds could theoretically be applied to take down a vehicle. I'm guessing that nothing except maybe the Tantalus will have that many wounds on our side, but yeah, Ironically, that battle cannon seems pretty good. But we have not seen point pricing yet. I'm genuinely surprised it only does D6 hits though. Wasn't it a large blast weapon before? seems like they really toned down the damage output all in all. I was thinking Large blast would be 2d6 and blast would be d6 but hey what do I know maybe other Large blast weapons will be 2 or even 3 or 4d6 shots. It also said in the article that such weapons would not be as effective as dedicated anti-big guns but I'd rather have a battle cannon than a las cannon on the same vehicle. Although I could change my mind if they were sufficiently different point costs. The twin-linked thing doesn't scare me as such an obvious boost will (hopefully) be balanced out with points.

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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 18:27

It appears the heavy d6 is only shots, so you would still need a roll to hit. While 18 wounds may happen... The average looks significantly lower...

D6 shots, 3.5
AM 4+ to hit
Dreadnoughts are 50/50
A dreadnought still get a 5+, assuming most vehicles have a 3+
A D3 gives mostly 2s..

All in all, it looks like around 1-2 wounds per shot.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 19:25

So then would wyverns be..

24 Die3 shots per turn, in a squadron of three would be 72 die 3 (up to 216) str 4 ignore cover shots?

yeah, methinks some of these weapons/vehicles will be toned down a bit

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urden93
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 20:16

hm melta is universal now so same against Guardsmen and Raider at 6", maybe poison wont change that much either
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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 20:16

So gun boat kabalites are looking even more appealing ... Cause now (keeping in mind we haven't seen rules for us yet and working off of rules as of now) a single warrior on a raider with splinter racks holding a splinter Cannon can shoot 12 times at 36" ... And the other 9 add 18 shots at 24" ... So we are looking at 30 shots at 24 inches from a single unit of 10 kabs in a raider with splinter racks ... At rapid fire range that jumps to 48 shots ... Just a bit better then what we have now assuming poison works the same way as it does now that's 24 wounds at half range with a possible -1 to armor ... Or 15 wounds at 13+ inches ... Regardless enough to do some very serious damage to most units that aren't monsterous creatures or vehicles ... And if I remember right a shard carbine is assualt 3 which would also be two linked with splinter wracks ... So a Trueborn unit with shard carbines on a raider could possibly have an output of 60 shots at 18" range ... But I'm not sure if I'm remembering that second part correctly with the carbines ...
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 20:41

Gunz got buffed to bonkers level + move and shoot heavy weapons and split fire.

Not looking good for fragile DE.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Weapons part 2   Wed May 10 2017, 20:52

Yeah a Trueborn 10man unit with Raider+SR = 40 shots lol (speculating)

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