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Dalamar
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PostSubject: 8e - Characters   Tue May 09 2017, 11:05

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Tue May 09 2017, 11:15

So characters can only be shot at if they're the closest unit, right? And we have a deep strike system that no longer scatters, right? See where I'm going here?

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Tue May 09 2017, 11:22

I don't like the sound of this. It looks great if you like to footslog but if they keep the holdover of "characters in vehicles don't exist" then... well good thing everyone was using the Lhamean HQ anyway.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Tue May 09 2017, 11:37

I suspect the transport vehicle rules are going to look a lot like the flying ships from AoS, where you can fit x number of models on board, regardless of how many units are involved. That's not my worry. I'm more concerned with a certain popular army that has access to cheap and numerous deep strike capable units that can arrive pretty much anywhere they like and shoot the living snot out of our T3, tissue-paper wearing characters.

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Tue May 09 2017, 11:39

Positive: Mention of Drazhar. We're in this thing! Slightly!

To be honest, I don't see how this ends Deathstars. Instead of "A and B join X to buff it" we'll just have A and B stand near X to buff it". Unless the keywords involved are REALLY specific. But I see a few fairly generic "Astartes" or "Imperium" which will muck everything up all over again.
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Anarchistscourge
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Tue May 09 2017, 11:42

Well there goes the Grotesquerie. They better up there Ld drastically or my favourite models might not see much light outside there case Sad

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Dalamar
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Tue May 09 2017, 11:49

@Anarchistscourge wrote:
Well there goes the Grotesquerie. They better up there Ld drastically or my favourite models might not see much light outside there case Sad

unless they go back to the old days and you need to have leader nearby. Maybe haemonculi have a area effect that increases leadership for coven units. We must wait and see.
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nerdelemental
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Tue May 09 2017, 11:52

Anarchistscourge - just extrapolating, but I'm guessing the keyword mechanic they're talking about would work here for the Grotesques just as well. And Beasts. It'd be easy to give a Hammy a keyword ability like: "Grotesques within 6" (or 8 or 10 or 12) may use this model's LD when making morale tests.
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Anarchistscourge
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Tue May 09 2017, 11:54

Also means that i cant stick a succubus in there for her AP2, but im sure ill be able to keep her close, and with these new rules, may even be a bit more killy / survivable

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Tue May 09 2017, 12:02

I'm not too worried about drop pods. Just put the character physically in the unit. He may not be a part of the unit but he still will never be closest until half the unit is gone.

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Draco
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Tue May 09 2017, 12:04

@Squidmaster wrote:
Positive: Mention of Drazhar. We're in this thing! Slightly!

To be honest, I don't see how this ends Deathstars. Instead of "A and B join X to buff it" we'll just have A and B stand near X to buff it". Unless the keywords involved are REALLY specific. But I see a few fairly generic "Astartes" or "Imperium" which will muck everything up all over again.

They are very specifically trying to eliminate the deathstars, I don't think they will overlook the keywords. I'm expecting very specific keywords like "Space Wolves" "Blood Angels" "Nurgle".
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Tue May 09 2017, 12:16

I expect, given the organization into over factions, at least some abilities will affect all armies in the over faction.

However: ICs and Superfriendstars might be out, but Force Multipliers are definitely back in! First legitimately exciting thing I've seen.
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Dalamar
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Tue May 09 2017, 13:29

Reece from Frontline Gaming's Guard article is up, and while they were asked to write hype pieces for the new edition with no rules specifics, (see frankie's CSM article) Reece's has some tidbits. Here is the one that fits with this discussion.

"Nope, now, with the added “encouraging” presence of a nearby Commissar – which limits the losses of a bad Morale test – Astra Militarum are downright stalwart. Even Ratlings – with their sniper weapons allowing them to pick out and target Characters – will now be reaping a tally on your enemy’s leaders in the name of the Emperor!"

so Commissar's aura will help morale, and looks like snipers will be a P.I.T.A and priority targets or start losing your characters.

I will post a new thread with other tidbits.



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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Tue May 09 2017, 13:49

This is going to be Deathstars 2.0. Buffs will stack, heroes will never die, and a single squad with buffs and psychic powers from characters will turn into a murderball. The difference is there will be almost infinite flavors of death star.

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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Tue May 09 2017, 13:52

So hexrifles are now a thing?
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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Tue May 09 2017, 14:19

I'm gonna have to magnetize the crap out of my incoming wracks and new haemy.

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AngelicPerversion
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Tue May 09 2017, 14:29

This is shaping up to be an interesting edition. I am sure that a vindacare assassin will be able to pick characters out. I am a heavy coven player so it will be very interesting to see the changes.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Tue May 09 2017, 15:27

Well ... DSing has a minimum range now tho, it will be VERY hard to DS and snipe out a character.
There will be LOADS of key words for IC's, Im betting Grots will be fine, lets wait and see.
As for our weapons like Hex Riflers, they might change.

Im assuming Transports will work like in AOS where vehicles can have have Multi-units in the same transport, they just have a model limit not a unit limit.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Tue May 09 2017, 20:31

@TeenageAngst wrote:
This is going to be Deathstars 2.0. Buffs will stack, heroes will never die, and a single squad with buffs and psychic powers from characters will turn into a murderball. The difference is there will be almost infinite flavors of death star.

That may be true, but it sounds like most factions will have access to squad-boosting characters.  Maybe I don't understand the nature of the problems death stars present, but the thing that I didn't like about them were that they were not very fluffy (odd-allies).  If the keyword system works it souds like death stars will have to be all Space-Wolves or all-Dark Angels in order to work, and I don't see what's wrong with that.  Moreover, as TeenageAngst pointed out, they'll be all over the place, every army will have access to them, which made me think of ...
Muahahahaaaa!!!!

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Tue May 09 2017, 20:43

Because death stars were boring to play and boring to play against. Two death star lists duking it out was an exercise in frustration. Lemme put it to you this way. It got so bad, there was a gentleman's agreement amongst all the top level 40k players in the NOVA circuit to not run them anymore. The people who play this game explicitly to win prize support collectively agreed not to run the most powerful lists in the game because they were so un-fun.

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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Tue May 09 2017, 22:07

@TeenageAngst wrote:
Because death stars were boring to play and boring to play against. Two death star lists duking it out was an exercise in frustration. Lemme put it to you this way. It got so bad, there was a gentleman's agreement amongst all the top level 40k players in the NOVA circuit to not run them anymore. The people who play this game explicitly to win prize support collectively agreed not to run the most powerful lists in the game because they were so un-fun.

Below: archival footage of what it was like to play deathstar vs deathstar (skip to 1:13 for the actual battle)

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Wed May 10 2017, 02:11

These will not be anything like the deathstars of 7th ed.

The proper stars had mass wound manipulation, multiple rerollable saves, all the special rules, and stacked all sorts of effects.

Most of this is gone now - partly due to no formations and partly due to no characters in units.

I am expecting broad stroke key words right down to very specific ones...

Imperium < Astartes < (insert chapter here)
Aeldari < (insert DE/CWE/EH/EC) < (insert specific reference to prior group eg aspect warrior/coven/kabalite etc)


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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Wed May 10 2017, 02:29

You say that but I'm seeing units of Stormcast Eternals getting +4 attacks and rerollable saves.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Wed May 10 2017, 02:45

That's AoS - not 40k. While the game will bear similarities, its a different beast due to the modern technology of the game.

AoS needs to make melee a thing and powerful because shooting is so weak by comparison.


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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Characters   Wed May 10 2017, 06:54

Yeah I dont think it will be anything like AOS bubble stars.

They have learned from AoS and 7th ed, and they had actual top players testing all the units. I'm 100% sure they looked to break the rules when testing this time.

Im not worried about bubble stars at all.

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