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 8e - Battle-forged Detachments

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Fri May 05 2017, 15:32

Linky

No more formations!

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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Fri May 05 2017, 15:43

Seems intriguing. It's nice that they have it available to all forces. We could fit a pretty mean army into that brigade detatchment

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Fri May 05 2017, 15:43

Hallel-Fecking-ujah!!! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Fri May 05 2017, 15:59

@Painjunky wrote:
Hallel-Fecking-ujah!!! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Agreed
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Fri May 05 2017, 15:59

I would guess the real perks will come from command points. I seem to recall that they said the basic rules would have some generic uses for them and the 'codexes' would have army specific uses. Let's just hope they make a decent effort to balance them so we don't get crap like Space Marines having 500 points of free transports and us having a 6+ cover save on the first turn. Because that would be ridiculous!

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Fri May 05 2017, 16:09

I'm a bit confused on the Dedicated transports, in those examples they all say every other choice, does that mean I can't take transports for everyone? The way I'm understanding dedicated transports are now their own slots so I can't take additional raiders in a fast attack.

Also, when it says every other does that count only infantry eligible for dedicated transports? I hate these glimpse because they bring up more questions then we have answers. Maybe it won't matter and there will be detachments that will not have that restriction and I can be happy with my mechanized forces. Or maybe transports will have two different designations as dedicated transports and what other slot they might normally take up such as our fast attack slot in the past.


Last edited by CurstAlchemist on Fri May 05 2017, 16:12; edited 1 time in total
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Fri May 05 2017, 16:10

Nothing really groundshaking in those 3 detachment.
If the Court keeps the cost and role the Brigade can be quite abusable.
I'm really curious about the other 9 detachments.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Fri May 05 2017, 16:12

Remember these are 3 out of 12 of the BRB ones, there will be specifically ones for each army/faction.

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Imateria
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Fri May 05 2017, 16:17

@Count Adhemar wrote:
I would guess the real perks will come from command points. I seem to recall that they said the basic rules would have some generic uses for them and the 'codexes' would have army specific uses. Let's just hope they make a decent effort to balance them so we don't get crap like Space Marines having 500 points of free transports and us having a 6+ cover save on the first turn. Because that would be ridiculous!
Well, Command Points will be one use only abilities and you can only expend one point per phase. I can see them being quite powerful, but nowhere near the pure BS that was taking half your army for free that Gladius and War Con gave out.

@CurstAlchemist wrote:
I'm a bit confused on the Dedicated transports, in those examples they all say every other choice, does that mean I can't take transports for everyone? The way I'm understanding dedicated transports are now their own slots so I can't take additional raiders in a fast attack.

Also, when it says every other does that count only infantry eligible for dedicated transports? I hate these glimpse because they bring up more questions then we have answers. Maybe it won't matter and there will be detachments that will not have that restriction and I can be happy with my mechanized forces. Or maybe transports will have two different designations as dedicated transports and what other slot they might normally take up such as our fast attack slot in the past.
Dedicated Transports are currently not their own slot (unless you have an old 6th ed codex like Guard and Chaos), Raiders and Venoms for instance can be taken as FA choices but many of our infantry also list them as options for a dedicated transport.

It defintiely remains to be seen on whether their are restrictions on what can and can't take DT's.

@amishprn86 wrote:
Remember these are 3 out of 12 of the BRB ones, there will be specifically ones for each army/faction.
There are 14 actually, and they're generic, so every army has access to them. I wouldn't be surprised to see Elite, FA and HS centric FOC's amongst the other 11. I doubt we'll see army specific FOC's, instead the focus will probably be on army specific Command Points and Strategems.


Last edited by Imateria on Fri May 05 2017, 16:24; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Fri May 05 2017, 16:21

One wonders about Harlequins... with no HQ. But it seems the crazy taxes on Harlie deployment are gone (!).

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Fri May 05 2017, 16:25

@Grievous wrote:
One wonders about Harlequins... with no HQ. But it seems the crazy taxes on Harlie deployment are gone (!).

They will be fully playable as a harlequin only army without an HQ but they are getting there on FoC just like every other army, so they still might have those XD we will have to wait and see.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Fri May 05 2017, 16:27

Its possible unit types will change?
For Harlequins, they may find themselves with HQ choices at last (I'm possibly thinking Solitaire or Shadowseer?
You never know.

GW do seem to be saying that existing Formation based armies should still be useable, so I'm hoping to Detachments that don't rely on compulsory HQ and Troops but use Fast, or Elite instead.

I will say, I LIKED Formations. I did. I thought they were fine addition to the game, and only fault them in that we as Dark Eldar didn;t really have enough of them. Balance was off sure, and not everyone had the options the should have, but I thought the concept was sound.

BUT, I like the new thing, Command points intrigue me. For Dark Eldar, I'm anticipating the Command point options being our new Power From Pain system.

Optimism!
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Fri May 05 2017, 17:24

So with them getting rid of army specific formations and making these available to everyone, it does balance the game much more, however i dislike that the fluff of formations will go.
What i expect we will see is alternative force org for armies in their future codicies. For Eg. Space marines Battle Company ay say you must use the Battalion Detatchment and it must be filled with xyz units, and abc units are optional, as im sure you will note that all of those formations had no restrictions.

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Fri May 05 2017, 17:34

Perhaps some lore friendly detachments will come with the release of new codices.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Fri May 05 2017, 18:26

I'm interested to see how GW will fulfill their promise that the game will better match the fluff without formations.

I think formations are one of the few things left that encourage fluffy army lists.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Fri May 05 2017, 21:29

I liked formations. 14 flavors of CAD has the tactical depth of a spoon.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Fri May 05 2017, 21:43

I suspect they're just changing what they call formations to detachments because despite it's simplicity, there were still tons of people who couldn't wrap their mind around the fact that formations were still just a specific TYPE of detachment, and therefore fit the definition of a detachment.

3 years of people not understanding this probably spurred them to just call them all detachments, and still give detachments special rules and "formation bonuses".

I expect that we've been shown the 3 most generic detachments of the 12 they mentioned.

Time will tell.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Fri May 05 2017, 22:07

Quote :
I suspect they're just changing what they call formations to detachments

See, the concerning thing to me, is that I've seen no indication of faction specific detachments.

Quoting from the post, "If your army is built using Formations right now, you’re going to be fine. In their place are a dozen new game-wide Detachments..."

Specific attention to the "In their place." I don't have an exact quote from their Facebook, but they've stated they haven't heard of anything faction specific. It seems to me we're stuck with these, for better or worse.

Another point of note is I haven't heard or seen any references to Objective Secured. My increasingly vocal cynical side is saying their next big leak is going to be, "Wait for it, we have something big..<trumpet fanfare and confetti cannons>...No more objectives!"

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Fri May 05 2017, 22:35

Well as Dedicated Transports are separated from the units now i guess Venoms bought for Troops probably won't secure objectives anymore.

Or what TheBaconPope said.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Fri May 05 2017, 23:55

The part about dedicated transports as I took it means that you can take one dedicated transports for each unit that can take one so for example the venom and raider will lose their fast attack option and only be dedicated transports again ... But any unit we take will be able to load in which ever one is specified by the unit in it's rules
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Sat May 06 2017, 00:49

It says 1 for every other choice, nothing else specified.
So i guess that means if you take for example a Ravager as Heavy Support choice you can take one Dedicated Transport.

Anyway farewell Haemonculus Covens Formations Sad

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Sat May 06 2017, 01:45

@TheBaconPope wrote:

Quoting from the post, "If your army is built using Formations right now, you’re going to be fine. In their place are a dozen new game-wide Detachments..."

Yeah, this doesn't necessarily mean there won't be any faction-specific detachments. Just maybe not at launch. Afterwards, I'd imagine they'll release faction-specific books that expand on more specific faction lore, and add things that are more specific to the faction, like detachments.

Realise that GW is remaking the entire game, and has to include rules for all the models in the initial release. That's a large undertaking, so they're focusing on getting us all some basic rules to play the game while still giving us more options than just CAD or Allied Detachment. When 6th edition came out, that's all there was, for everyone(2 detachments). It was the multitude of codices that came out afterwards that resulted in the volume of detachments/formations we have today. Prior to 6th edition, everyone used the singular "Force Organization Chart" of their faction.

So, looking at it from that perspective, having access to 12 generic detachments(as opposed to the 2, or 1 before that) is a huge leap forward in us having more options.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Sat May 06 2017, 01:48

I love how the objective is to try and nullify any possible advantage for bringing units from another faction that are powerful. For instance I can't bring Eldar with a Riptide Wing anymore, I have to bring Eldar and Tau detachments, and the lack of command points or w/e would nullify any possible advantage gained. Let's follow this logic a moment. If the goal is to stop people from bringing multiple factions to capitalize on powerful units, why allow people to bring multiple factions at all? Why not just force them to pick an army? Clearly they want allies to be allowed though, so why penalize it? Why should the person with one large force inherently benefit more from their strategy than someone with lots of smaller forces? If the points values were properly balanced, why penalize people for jumping across lines? Unless they're not, in which case you're only buffing the factions that have an incredibly strong core ruleset and penalizing armies that need allies to be viable.

Any way you look at it you lose.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Sat May 06 2017, 01:55

Ive said it a few times now, they said it, there will be faction/armor specific factions.

The only question is how many are we getting at release and if they will bring more out later.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Battle-forged Detachments   Sat May 06 2017, 04:22

Interesting. The battalion detachment looks pretty close to a current CAD, and comes with three command points. So my usual single-CAD style army will probably have about that many comman points to spend. I hope that not all the good stuff is restricted to command points!

I wonder if you will be required to complete a detachment before picking a second? If not I could see throwing a whole pile of small, minimal detachments together to try and squeeze more command points. But even if so, rather than filling a single medium detachment and supplementing an extra small one, you may be better off minimally filling a big one for the extra points...

I'm keen to see the full rules for army building.
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