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 8e - Morale Phase

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 15:12


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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 15:19

If Dark Eldar keep their morale debuffing powers then this could be brutal against our opponents. Just kill a couple of models in a squad while putting a -2 or more leadership debuff on them and they could be losing a hell of a lot more!

Similarly though it could be quite easy for us to have to suffer lots of leadership checks given how easy it is to kill our models.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 15:19

It seems extremely brutal and could be really dangerous for us. Take a few casualties from Overwatch and a few more in combat and even if you win you're going to die, as it seems both sides have to take the test - win or lose! And then your opponent simply walks away from combat and his mates shoot what's left of your army to death.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 15:38

Note: GW said stats can go higher then 10. whos to say LD's cant go higher either.

Some good examples of units/armies doing this:

Orks LD = Addition models give more LD models (+10 Models = +10LD)
Nids: Synapse = Auto LD15
Necrons: Always LD 12
Beast Packs: LD = Beast Master, Beastmaster LD+starting number of Beasts.

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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 15:40

Imagine a current freakstar with those rules...
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 15:43

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The mechanics are simple – any units that suffered casualties in a turn must take a Morale test at the end of it. You just roll a dice, add the number of models from the unit that have been slain, and if the number is bigger than the unit’s Leadership, that many models are lost.

Does that mean you lose (D6+casualties-LD) models? Or you lose the total number that you rolled if it's higher than your LD? If the latter, it's utterly brutal and will wipe out units wholesale.

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Eldur
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 15:46

Morale phase turns into another wound-dealing phase. It ignores saves but is based on models, not wounds. Note also that the difference between the Ld and the 1D6+dead models test means removed models! Watch out, grotesques! Low leadership, multiwound models are in danger after the first casualty. New mathhammer incoming, also. For example, you need to remove at least 5 models in a Ld 10 unit to get 1/6 chance to remove an additional 1 for free.

Grisly trophies will be needed more than ever.


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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 15:48

@Eldur wrote:
Morale phase turns into another wound-dealing phase. It ignores saves but is based on models, not wounds. Note also that the difference between the Ld and the 1D6+dead models test means removed models! Watch out, grotesques! Low leadership, multiwound models are in danger after the first casualty. New mathhammer incoming, also. For example, you need to remove at least  5 models in a Ld 10 unit to get 1/6 chance to remove an additional 1 for free.

Grisly trophies will be needed more than ever.


Again, we dont know if there will be modifiers to these. a Haemi might give Wracks, Grots, talos, cronos better LD or a modifier to the roll.

They said the mechanic, but never said it couldnt be modified.

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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 15:50

Quote :
Does that mean you lose (D6+casualties-LD) models? Or you lose the total number that you rolled if it's higher than your LD? If the latter, it's utterly brutal and will wipe out units wholesale.

I doubt it will be the second one. Doubling your losses and adding an average of 3.5 is a little cruel..

On the bright side, MSU will get a boost, because, for an example, a unit of 3 Reavers with Ld9 Cannot fail their morale under any circumstances. I'd expect to see a whole lot more transports as well.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 15:54

@Eldur wrote:
Morale phase turns into another wound-dealing phase. It ignores saves but is based on models, not wounds. Note also that the difference between the Ld and the 1D6+dead models test means removed models! Watch out, grotesques! Low leadership, multiwound models are in danger after the first casualty

Why they did it on models removed rather than wounds is a complete mystery.

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hekatrixxy
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 15:59

The way it reads to me is

if (d6 + casualties > ld) {
Remove d6 + casualties - leadership models
} else {
Everything is fine
}

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 16:16

It is the same as AOS

You take 2 casualties.
its 1D6+2
Your LD 5
You lose 3 Models

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Eldur
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 18:01

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Eldur wrote:
Morale phase turns into another wound-dealing phase. It ignores saves but is based on models, not wounds. Note also that the difference between the Ld and the 1D6+dead models test means removed models! Watch out, grotesques! Low leadership, multiwound models are in danger after the first casualty

Why they did it on models removed rather than wounds is a complete mystery.

Fluff, realism. Morale affects solfiers, not their appendices or organs. Hence models and not wounds.

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 18:21

I cannot think of another unit in the game that will be hurt as much as grotesques if they keep the LD they have now.

Other than that, as long as it affects marines I'm ok with it!

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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 20:23

An entire unit of Sslyth ... If memory serves they have a disgustingly low Ld ... Probably worse then Grots ... But if you are running pure Sslyth ... Well ... Expect mercs to cut losses and run ...
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 20:28

GW said they wanted to speed up the game and this will do it.

A new phase to randomly remove models from already damaged units.
LD de-buffs will be king.

I bet marines get some resistance to this rule.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 21:04

I hope not. They said that most units will be affected by this rule and as soon as Space Marines aren't, half of the units aren't affected.
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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 21:45

I can see this creating some tension between focusing attacks on a unit to kill it, vs spreading damage more widely and reducing overkill.

For example, we know a Tactical Marine has Ld 7. Say you kill 4 of a 5 man combat squad. Do you use another unit to kill the last guy, or take a 50% chance that he'll die in the Morale phase and shoot something else?
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 22:03

I hope that GW's experience with the Horus Heresy will have convinced them that ATSKNF is stupid.
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 22:09

Quote :
I hope that GW's experience with the Horus Heresy will have convinced them that ATSKNF is stupid.

I hope that GW's experience with seventh edition will have convinced them that ATSKNF is stupid.

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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 22:17

@TheBaconPope wrote:
Quote :
I hope that GW's experience with the Horus Heresy will have convinced them that ATSKNF is stupid.

I hope that GW's experience with  seventh edition will have convinced them that ATSKNF is stupid.

Well that too, I pointed out The Horus Heresy because it has been successful for them and Marine players are playing without the existence of ATSKNF (as it doesn't exist for the legions). Basically I was thinking of it as a, see, marines can still be just as successful without having them ignore large chunks of the core rules like morale.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 22:23

Quote :
Well that too, I pointed out The Horus Heresy because it has been successful for them and Marine players are playing without the existence of ATSKNF (as it doesn't exist for the legions). Basically I was thinking of it as a, see, marines can still be just as successful without having them ignore large chunks of the core rules like morale.

Sorry about that, I've never played Horus Heresy, probably should've learned that before I spoke, lol.

I apologize if I came across as a little rude there!

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 22:31

I wonder if we will keep the rules for our torment launchers.

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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 22:46

If the dark eldar keep there leadership manipulation then they could jump to top teir in an instant with these new rules where we table enemies in the moral phase after charging them with tormented armour clad ar hons wracks with freaky spectacle and having maybe even more if torment grenades go from causing wounds based on the exact same ruling as moral in 8th and goes to "enemies hit by this weapon suffer a -1 penalty to leadership, this effect can stack with consecutive torment grenades" so now an archon can have the armor and the torment grenades to lower enemy leadership by 3 ... But that's guess work
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Morale Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 22:49

Assuming characters give their LD to units they're with still, not gonna change how I use my grots at all.
One unit always has a haemy, the other a Succubus

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