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 8e - Fight Phase

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Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Fight Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 09:47

I agree mandrakes will probably get 3+ as well since they are supposed to be a melee unit even if they are not at the moment.

I actually think that most homunculus units will get to hit 4+ (including grotesques) since they are big brutes, not perfectly trained warriors. Talos might be 4+ or 3+.

So we will have wyches (and bloodbrides?) against low t, incubi against high armour, grotesques against high t, wracks to take punches. Talos for big things (probably good against high t high wound models), hellions and reavers as high speed, not sure how they will make them really different.

Kabalites, hopefully trueborn and scourges will be the shooty units.

I hope we often get our punch in 1 turn with massed charges hitting first and obliterate so much enemies that they will have a hard time to kill us the next turn. But if we fail those charges we will be weak enough that we will suffer much. Back to being a true glass cannon instead of a glass dagger. Big rewards if you play correctly but big problems if you make mistakes.

@teenageangst I think the fluff will be less to your liking, but I think most things will be possible to play still, since they also try to make rules for all the other models I think they try to make nearly everything possible, maybe just less effective. So I think while you might have to change the fluff a little bit (play ynnari and say they get the power from the suffering of those dying around them instead for instance), but most things will still be possible. But same as with the old netlists, it might be that your army is less effective than before. But hopefully there will be a better balance now which means more things will be viable. Yes you will have a advantage if you go for a single factions, on the other hand you also can do less cherry picking of different units so it might be a good balance, and I like that it is now not worse and possibly even better to have a coherent army instead of a cherry picking of the best units from different books.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Fight Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 09:57

I can almost guarantee the new fluff will be Hurricane Katrina levels of disastrous. I'll only play Ynnari in tournament settings because all fluff goes out the window the moment money is on the line, but in casual play, forget it. The entire faction is a dog that needs to be put down.

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Eldur
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Fight Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 11:04

I can see the Dark Eldar coordinated assault (everyone charging at every enemy unit at the dame time) as almost mandatory to secure a win. I hope we get the speed and/or tools to do so. Plz GW.

Edit: Oh, and also give us the abilities , weapons and troops to mess up the enemy plans. I'd love that.

Hellions should be the cheap harassers, BTW

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Fight Phase   Wed May 03 2017, 20:40

This needs tons of clarification but it seems ppl will be very careful not to bunch up their units.

That could be good for us if our CC units (wyches, hellions, beasts) do not suck soo bad.
They will need alot of work.
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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Fight Phase   Fri May 05 2017, 00:05

Forgive me if I'm wrong but with these rules, tactically, gun lines are going to need to be super smart about their unit placements. Even if you have a spaghetti string of a unit trying to bubble wrap the rest of your units, if I manage to blow a hole in your line, I can charge through the gap, tying up the units behind and the unit that was trying to bubble. Let's say, for this example, 3 units are tied up. Assuming none of the units died, the gun line player will then fall back the two killy units leaving the bubble wrap to slowly 3" move trickle in. (Insert Morale Penalties). So you will have had the chance to kill the Killy units or partially damage them, kill the bubble wrap and you've wasted 1 turn of the shooty as they fall back for safety.

Also, if it was a 1 on 1 situation and the enemy falls back the 6 inches or whatever it is, assuming the unit doesn't get blown away, what's stopping us from chasing them down and going right back into mêlée?

Lastly, webway gates, assuming there's room. Can we just pop up in the middle of a gun line and be positioned perfectly between two so we can charge both?

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Devilogical
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Fight Phase   Fri May 05 2017, 08:39

Space marine: How it`s feel, to strike back AFTER gretchin in close combat, little harlequin?

Clown: F`ck you man!

Lilith: Yeah, cut it out!

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Fight Phase   Fri May 05 2017, 08:59

@Devilogical wrote:
Space marine: How it`s feel, to strike back AFTER gretchin in close combat, little harlequin?

Clown: F`ck you man!

Lilith: Yeah, cut it out!

I cant wait to test Harlequins out honestly.

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Devilogical
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Fight Phase   Sat May 06 2017, 16:20

It`s should be little salty here.
GW says they want to refresh close combat, make it good and realy powerful for cc armies. But as my old friend says: doesn`t anyone see, that they in fact destroy cc for sure? There already some `tactics` that includes `Rino` and bunch of troops, that will prevent your whole blob of fighters from engaging. Or that stupid stuff with kroots. Realy annoying.

I have almost entirely cc army and for now i was kinda in the middle. Sometimes it was good, sometimes not. But for now i can feel only dissapointment.
Thankfully guy in our club says that morale phase from AoS is realy cool so i don`t have to worry about it.
Yet this edition doesn`t feel like best of all time...

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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Fight Phase   Sat May 06 2017, 16:37

Well I cannot justify getting salty until I actually have the information to try and determine what the game will actually be like to play. These tiny glimpses don't give us enough information to really see how our factions will actually operate so I can't really cry out in rage for my melee oriented Archons and Succubi (Sorry guys I'm a gunboat Archon myself) as I just don't have the whole picture. We are looking at what is most likely just the hand (or part of it) of an entire body of work that includes the base rules in their entirety, codex specific rules with command point abilities, and unit stats and abilities (I feel like I'm missing something in here).

At this point, the only answer I currently have is 42 and I have no idea what the actual question being answered is.
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Fight Phase   Sun May 07 2017, 03:04

@TeenageAngst wrote:
I can almost guarantee the new fluff will be Hurricane Katrina levels of disastrous. I'll only play Ynnari in tournament settings because all fluff goes out the window the moment money is on the line, but in casual play, forget it. The entire faction is a dog that needs to be put down.

Where is money on the line??? Are you saying there are events with cash prizes?

Yneead has been a thing planned in the lore for some time - it's not new. It's completely your choice to not like it but I just don't get your vitriol and rage against the faction

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Fight Phase   Sun May 07 2017, 06:55

Quote :
Where is money on the line??? Are you saying there are events with cash prizes?

Literally every tournament I go to has either store credit or cash prizes. De-La-War had insane prize support.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Fight Phase   Sun May 07 2017, 08:56

@TeenageAngst wrote:
Quote :
Where is money on the line??? Are you saying there are events with cash prizes?

Literally every tournament I go to has either store credit or cash prizes. De-La-War had insane prize support.

Fair enough - I have been to plenty of events around the world (including the US) and have never seen a cash prize on the line. Prize support happens more and most of the time I have seen a box or 2, maybe an army box. Hardly worth what something like Magic does for its events

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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Fight Phase   Sun May 07 2017, 13:33

@Massaen wrote:
@TeenageAngst wrote:
Quote :
Where is money on the line??? Are you saying there are events with cash prizes?

Literally every tournament I go to has either store credit or cash prizes. De-La-War had insane prize support.

Fair enough - I have been to plenty of events around the world (including the US) and have never seen a cash prize on the line. Prize support happens more and most of the time I have seen a box or 2, maybe an army box. Hardly worth what something like Magic does for its events

I've never seen a wargame event offer cash. Being told it's happening somewhere makes me sad - I think playing for money changes the nature of the game, and not for the better, with Magic being the relevant cautionary tale.

I hope that isn't becoming a thing. I spend enough time yelling at people to get off my space lawn as it is.

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Fight Phase   Sun May 07 2017, 15:45

A minor prize like a start collecting box or a gift card is fine. Big prize money will always bring the douches out of the woodwork and suck the fun out of any event.
The people trespassing on my space lawn are the worst. I feel your pain.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Fight Phase   Sun May 07 2017, 18:29

I think a cash prize for an invitational would be OK. Then you could use other tournaments with normal prize support for satalites/qualifiers for the invitational and it would probably mitigate a lot of the douchebaggery by making the cash prize invitational tournament a very long shot.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Fight Phase   Mon May 08 2017, 10:24

Or the douchebag Faction would attend the "normal" tournaments to get the invitation and ruin the fun for everyone.

Sure enough, the douchebag money tournament would be filled with mostly those guys but that's not worth it.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Fight Phase   Mon May 08 2017, 15:18

And people wonder why I complain about my local circuit lol

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Fight Phase   Tue May 09 2017, 16:04

im afraid of powerfists swinging before agile and fast wyches or basically any eldar got a chance to kill it, i mean our CC units arent tough enough to take it, for me it always was eliminate most of the modells at my Init and not getting rekt by superior Str by basically any other modell
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Fight Phase   Tue May 09 2017, 16:51

Yeah, I'm afraid of 8th being the age of the power fist too. Curious to see how they'll balance it, if at all. They could easily still make power fists strike last.

I guess it's probably more concerning that it will be the age of space marines, where power sword space marines still strike before everyone else, despite space elves supposedly being faster.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Fight Phase   Tue May 09 2017, 17:41

Or PF will have the Keyword "Last Strike" and always goes last, also Some units might have "First Strike" and always goes first. We need to wait to see the details Smile

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Fight Phase   Wed May 10 2017, 00:11

I know a certain wych who could be befitting of the Always Strikes First rule... and an Attacks characteristic that goes above 10.

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