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 8e - The new stat-line

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 09:34

GW are now showing off the new basic stat-line for all units:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/25/warhammer-40000-unit-profiles/


Movement in, Initiative out (which makes me wonder how the SECOND round of combat will work).
Space Marine Tactical Squad is Movement 6", Terminators 5", Dreadnoughts 6", Guilliman 8"
WS and BS become set X+ values, with modifiers in game.
Land Raider hinted at having "dozens of wounds". By comparison, Terminators have two, Guilliman has 9. Dreadnought is T7, 8W, 3+ save.

Strength vs Toughness still a comparison for Wounding!

So, wild speculation time?

I can see use keeping around the S/T3 mark. With our decent stats now, I can see Kabalites being WS/BS 3+. Thats pretty much our current standard. Maybe if we're VERY lucky, WS 2+ for Wyches, T4 for Wracks? Maybe W2 for Wracks too?
I'd like to think we'd hit around 8" for Movement on Kabalites, or at least that for Wyches. Maybe 6" for Wracks.

Weapons apparently the next reveal (based on a response to a Comment)


Last edited by Squidmaster on 26/4/2017, 09:40; edited 1 time in total
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 09:38

Moved to News and Rumours - Count Adhemar

Misgivings about this whole mechanic based on the statline preview. Space Marines have 6" (!!!) movement and there's no Initiative anymore? Eldar had better have 9"+ Movement then or Power Fists will just punch everything to death before we even get to swing. Having 7" movement (for example) will be nowhere near enough to have a decent chance of getting the charge in and swinging first.


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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 09:56

Agreed. I was looking forward to being fast again. Looks like age of ultramarines is primed and ready to go.

Seriously can't wait to see how girlyman is faster in his giant armor than our wyches.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 09:57

If they keep random charge distances then Eldar having Fleet or some other means to re-roll might go some way towards balancing this but you can bet your house they'll give the rule out like candy to Space Marines too! If they make charge moves relative to your movement stat rather than random that might also help. D6"+M would be my guess if that's the route they go down.

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 09:59

I heard it was confirmed cover improves your armor save so ultramarines get more benefit from cover than we do.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 10:10

Maybe our armour will get better.

It won't, but I felt like saying something positive. As you can see, I got over my positivity quickly. Smile

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 10:10

@The Red King wrote:
I heard it was confirmed cover improves your armor save so ultramarines get more benefit from cover than we do.

I hope that's not true!

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 10:11

These are grim times indeed to wring optimism from the stone of pragmatism that is BTW (no sarcasm).
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 14:24

I don't understand why some people are upset that Marines have a 6 inch movement attribute. They had that last edition too. And the edition before. I expect Eldar will have a 7 while Dark Eldar will be more in line with 8 or possibly 9.

That said, I'm glad initiative is gone. I've quite enjoyed the "You choose a unit, I choose a unit" mechanic in AoS. Adding the fact that chargers go first will just sweeten the deal.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 14:31

Back in my day, before all you people showed up on my space lawn, they moved 4". Up hill. Both ways.

With movement characteristics like what you're speculating, why would anyone need transports?

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nerdelemental
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 15:08

Because what if Transports move 18" and you can charge out of them?

We can truly and honestly become a fast faction (very opposite of 6th edition). With melee combat working correctly finally - using a number to hit exactly like ballistic - we may actually be a viable close combat faction (very opposite of 6th edition).

I've never wanted DEldar to have more survivability. I wanted them to be way, way more lethal. Give them first attacks with seriously reliable good hit ratios. Then let them die because they wear bras and panties on the battlefield (and that's the boys).

Also, even if cover increases Armor, and SMarines have better armor, a new ability called Shadow Fighting (anything) that grants *even more benefit from cover* would get the job done correctly.


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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 15:11

Well boxing your units for transportation does give it some additional protection and can provide mobile cover. Transports won't be completely useless, I hope... But, overall I agree I think that the movement stats are to large.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 15:16

I hope you're all wrong about worrying over the 6" movement of Marines. If that's standard, as Marines in theory are supposed to exemplify, then cranking it up for fast factions to the 8"-10" range is legit to me. Make the game go faster. Let us get into close combat asap. It's not too big to me. Let's start rolling dice and dying.
Right now I'm used to seeing 36"+ weapons eliminate a chunk of my army on turn 1, before I've even moved. Then, if I'm running melee-centric armies, I might not even get to engage until after I'm shot up *again*. Just give DEldar SPEED, for the sake of all that's holy.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 15:25

Cover should modify the To hit roll, not armour save. Doesn't it works that way in shadow war?
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 15:33

It does work that way for Shadowwar. -1 to BS for partial cover (upto 50%) -2 for over 50% covered

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 15:52

New weapons info:

Boltguns S4, don't modify save. "Rapid Fire", which may not mean what it does now anymore.....
Flamers the same, 8" range, but auto-hit, d6 hits.
Lascannons S9, -3 save, then do d6 Wounds.

No more D weapons!
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 15:56

Flamers also do d6 auto hits even against a single model unit. As GW say burna boys got a lot sacrier and flamers in general are awesome

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 16:03

Maybe there is hope for liquefiers?
Also love for medusae.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 16:05

@Squidmaster wrote:
New weapons info:

Boltguns S4, don't modify save. "Rapid Fire", which may not mean what it does now anymore.....
Flamers the same, 8" range, but auto-hit, d6 hits.
Lascannons S9, -3 save, then do d6 Wounds.

No more D weapons!

Well, assuming that kabalite armor is still 5+, this means that we actually get saves vs. bolters.. so that's a small step up in survivability.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 16:19

They also mentioned that soon bolters will be able to hurt vehicles.... had to laugh.

They specifically called out Eldar being able to "run" faster, I hope that means a better movement stat than space marines but it could be just more running which will be fine if we all get that total bullcrap battle focus mechanic that the lesser eldar have enjoyed for some time.

I hope that gun boats are even better in the next edition.
I am looking forward to raining splinter fire on the war machines of the imperium.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 16:23

My hope is that they dont massively buff raiders over venoms or vice versa and effectively cause players to have to shelve whole armies worth. In fact if there keeping it balanced, i hope this translates to internal faction balance also so no 1 unit is "auto take" while others are "auto exclude".....*cough* wyches, hellions *cough*

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 16:26

@Logan Frost wrote:
Maybe there is hope for liquefiers?
Also love for medusae.

Those beautiful liquid spewing guns were my first, real joy with the DE. I sure hope they become that feeling again.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 16:41

I am more hopeful than the optimistic archon right now:)
Move 9 for eldar makes sense, and besides this, we can run then charge for a change. Our false kin could run then shoot as an alternative. These are all wishes btw.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 16:43

This is something from Sigmar that's gonna be straight goofy. I play with Chariots and AELFS and their speed is bizonkers. Imagine moving 12" in a Raider, disembsrking 7", and then charging another 7". First turn charges every time.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - The new stat-line   26/4/2017, 17:02

@TeenageAngst wrote:
This is something from Sigmar that's gonna be straight goofy. I play with Chariots and AELFS and their speed is bizonkers. Imagine moving 12" in a Raider, disembsrking 7", and then charging another 7". First turn charges every time.
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