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 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways

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Anarchistscourge
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Tue Apr 25 2017, 22:08

Not sure I'm keen on having a lot more multi wound units. Could be a lot more to keep track of. Hope they do as krayd says and you get bonus / negative for higher / lower WS.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Tue Apr 25 2017, 22:16

@TeenageAngst wrote:
As far as I can tell, command points are basically "build your own formation bonus". There's gonna be some that will be stupid broken though.

Its sounds like they are trying to balance the game as much as they can, with all the testers and everything has been tested, why would they put a "stupidly broken" thing in? I dont think any will be.

Now will some be used in key moments? Yeah but you as a player know they are going to try and use them, we dont even know if they are 100% yet or still based on a Dice roll. We dont even know if you get to pick what ones you get to use.


@Anarchistscourge wrote:
Not sure I'm keen on having a lot more multi wound units. Could be a lot more to keep track of. Hope they do as krayd says and you get bonus / negative for higher / lower WS.

From what I saw I thought I read that wounds hits the unit and you allocate to a model till it dies (Trying to find where i read this) so you wouldnt need to keep track of 5 guys in a unit of multi wound models.

But if you have 20+ Wounds on 20+ IC/Vehicles then yes it will take some book keeping. Lucky 2 dice can keep track of 1 to 66 so wont need to worry to much.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Tue Apr 25 2017, 22:33

Very true. But I suppose it depends on whether they get rid of allocating to closest. I heard somewhere they were but can't remember if it was just a rumour. If they keep it that way then people will do as they do now and shift wounded models to the back

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Tue Apr 25 2017, 23:30

Im super interested in how they'll change how Leadership works. Space Marines having 7, will our special grenades work against them now? Dreadnought has LD8? Will they work against Dreads?

Until we get the full picture on how units stack up against each other I'm going to withhold my judgement. Excited for the weapon profiles tomorrow though.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Wed Apr 26 2017, 02:02

I'm hoping that one of the sample weapons is the splinter rifle, because I would really like to know if poison is going to be changed, or if there are qualifiers that prevent it from damaging (or maybe reduce the S of the weapon to 1) certain targets (vehicles, specifically)
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Wed Apr 26 2017, 02:09

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Its sounds like they are trying to balance the game as much as they can, with all the testers and everything has been tested, why would they put a "stupidly broken" thing in? I dont think any will be.

Because these are the same people who gave us the Riptide Wing, Wraithknights, Warp Spider spam, scatbikes, grav, the Tripartite Lance, the new Saint Celestine, the Necron Pylon artillery, barkstars, "booking", Screamer stars, Wulfen, Soulbursting, and Primarchs in 40k.

Anyone designing a game has to understand 2 basic principles. The first is that players will always trend towards the most efficient means of achieving an objective. This means that if they want to win, they will deduce what wins and follow that path with increasing efficiency over time. The second is that for any given game, emergent gameplay will occur. This is where rules and mechanics are used outside of their original intended purpose. This is, for example, rocket jumping in Quake, using the select button trick to beat the Yellow Devil in Megaman, or using 45 Warp Spiders in a single 1850pt Eldar list.

When you combine these two principles what you find is that people will intentionally develop emergent gameplay to achieve a desired outcome, usually to win. Online games tend to patch this, which they perceive as a loophole, out. Tabletop games don't have that option, so they tend to instead prevent emergent gameplay by homogenizing the rules for different factions as much as possible. The more that's the same, the less chance there is for exploitation. This is what we are seeing now. Command benefits will be a grab bag however and people will find a winning combination and use them over and over and over in that same combination like Magic players do.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Wed Apr 26 2017, 02:27

I'm interested in just how good our movement value will be. This is a good chance for gw to really set us apart and give us like a 9" move.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Wed Apr 26 2017, 02:39

@SaturdayNightWrist wrote:
I'm interested in just how good our movement value will be. This is a good chance for gw to really set us apart and give us like a 9" move.

My (somewhat reserved) estimate would be that kabalites would get a 7, while wyches would get 8.

Of course, 9 would be nice, but I'm expecting termagants/hormagaunts to fall into the 9/10 range.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Wed Apr 26 2017, 03:05

@krayd wrote:
@SaturdayNightWrist wrote:
I'm interested in just how good our movement value will be. This is a good chance for gw to really set us apart and give us like a 9" move.

My (somewhat reserved) estimate would be that kabalites would get a 7, while wyches would get 8.

Of course, 9 would be nice, but I'm expecting termagants/hormagaunts to fall into the 9/10 range.

You're probably right with the 8 for wyches and 7 warriors. Wracks would probably fit in line with space marines and have a 6" move.

I'd also expect my harlies to get whatever wyches get.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Wed Apr 26 2017, 05:10

I doubt we will see any weapons profiles for Dark Eldar, I'm expecting all these "reveals" to be centered around GW's "beloved" Space Marines.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Wed Apr 26 2017, 05:15

They really want to "bring the focus back to the imperium and scale back the xenos". I'm paraphrasing but basically I think the 5 books are going to be imperium, chaos, xenos, generals handbook, and space marines.

Expect a new faction of ultraultramarines to fill the first 8 months of releases with the occasional khorne model thrown in so the kiddies have something to beat up on. 40k becomes G.I. Joe to appeal to children. The end.

I'm a gw fanboy so this is actually what I consider an optimistic outlook for our prospects.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Wed Apr 26 2017, 05:30

@Barrywise wrote:
Im super interested in how they'll change how Leadership works. Space Marines having 7, will our special grenades work against them now? Dreadnought has LD8? Will they work against Dreads?

Until we get the full picture on how units stack up against each other I'm going to withhold my judgement. Excited for the weapon profiles tomorrow though.

If we even have those same rules for our weapons.


@TeenageAngst wrote:
Quote :
Its sounds like they are trying to balance the game as much as they can, with all the testers and everything has been tested, why would they put a "stupidly broken" thing in? I dont think any will be.

Because these are the same people who gave us the Riptide Wing, Wraithknights, Warp Spider spam, scatbikes, grav, the Tripartite Lance, the new Saint Celestine, the Necron Pylon artillery, barkstars, "booking", Screamer stars, Wulfen, Soulbursting, and Primarchs in 40k.

Just b.c someone did something in the past doesnt mean they will do it again, also they brought outside help for rules and testing, I mean Front line gaming did the testing for them along with some others.

I understand you are skeptic, but we cant just make assumptions at all right now.

They were even quoted int he video that "riptides are not balanced and DS's where loop holes" they know what is and isnt balanced, lets give them a chance and "read the rules" before calling it broken/OP

@The Red King wrote:
They really want to "bring the focus back to the imperium and scale back the xenos". I'm paraphrasing but basically I think the 5 books are going to be imperium, chaos, xenos, generals handbook, and space marines.

Expect a new faction of ultraultramarines to fill the first 8 months of releases with the occasional khorne model thrown in so the kiddies have something to beat up on. 40k becomes G.I. Joe to appeal to children. The end.

I'm a gw fanboy so this is actually what I consider an optimistic outlook for our prospects.

Nah SM will be with Imperial.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Wed Apr 26 2017, 05:37

Quote :
Just b.c someone did something in the past doesnt mean they will do it again

Hahaha oh wow.

They're a corporation not my cheating ex-wife. I don't owe them the benefit of a doubt.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Wed Apr 26 2017, 05:40

I don't know about that.

Space marines have at least as many factions as eldar (dark angels, space wolves, blood angels, etc.) And GW likes and wants to push their sales a lot more.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Wed Apr 26 2017, 06:38

I hope that Mega Smurfs don't become the only releases for the first 8 months, I'm still (stupidly) hoping that they finally scrap all the finecasts and release plastics for them. I currently own zero Grotesques but if they released them in plastic (to lazy to convert my own) and I will expand my Kabal to include some Haemonculi. I would also buy some plastic Incubi to go with the metal ones I've got.

Edit: Just remembered that Death Guard are awaiting their release so it won't just be the Papa Smurfs Mega Smurf project Marines.


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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Wed Apr 26 2017, 06:45

As I'm currently in the process of assembling/painting my Revenant, I'm curious how they will incorporate FW products with the new release.
I have a few FW models (Achilles, Brass Scorpion, Renegades and artillery)
I wonder if they release a PDF or what (I cant imagine all FW products bein the 3 books they release)

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Wed Apr 26 2017, 06:46

I'm gonna make like Blackbeard and read all the rules for my 6 factions before I spend $250 USD(or W/E it is) on new books for them.

I understand the need to make old codices obsolete in order to fit with a complete system redesign, but I'm still not thrilled to buy new rules for them, especially after buying gathering storm right before it basically became obsolete.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Wed Apr 26 2017, 06:50

Well on the plus side all the xenos go in one book. Even if eldar do go into their own seperate book it should be a good value.

I don't know, maybe you play every single army but otherwise $250 is likely a bit of a hyperbole.

Which is not to say you're not entitled to your grievances. I was miffed when you pointed out only the ultramarine GS book was eligible for refund.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Wed Apr 26 2017, 07:00

I'm looking forward to the plastic sisters, the issue is everyone and their uncle will be running them. That means I'll need 2 books, one for the Imperium and one for the Dark Eldar/Eldar/Harlequins I have.

Unfortunately, judging by the way the force orgs are going to be, I don't think running Sisters with my Dark Eldar will be as easy or synergistic as it was in 7th :/

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Wed Apr 26 2017, 07:08

It was my understanding that initially, we're only going to get very basic rules for the various armies, and later on we'll get more detailed breakdowns(probably in the form of things like khorne daemonkin, covenite coteries, etc). But admittedly, I haven't been researching it closely, so I might have a skewed perspective based on incomplete or inaccurate information. I have CWE, DE, Orks, Tau, Necrons, Ynnari(if they're still a thing) and just a dash of chaos/imperial/space marine stuff(From boxed games).

I'd be surprised if they crammed CWE, DE, Orks, Tau, and Necrons into one book. I'd buy the crap out of it, but I'd be surprised. If they do so, I really hope they pack the book full of substance instead of just dumbing the rules down in order to fit in the typical amount of "rules space" they tend to use in books.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Wed Apr 26 2017, 07:13

I suppose I'm of two minds on the matter. I agree GW won't sell such a value book for xenos but I also can't see them giving eldar their own book and not space marines.

Oh man would I be mad if they end up doing "good xenos" who work with the empire (tau, eldar, necron?) And "bad xenos (Dark eldar, orks, tyranid).

That seems plausible too.
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Wed Apr 26 2017, 07:40

The Imperium will go in the Blood Axes Grand Alliance.

(I was gonna make that joke a while back, but forgot.)

There was a time, back when GW cared about players who liked armies other than Space Marines, when different Klans and Craftworlds and the like had different army lists the way Marines do now.

That demonstrates the following things:

If the 8 different Ork army lists can be condensed (with, er, some omissions) into a single Ork codex, then so can every Marine chapter.

And the inverse: if the Space Marines army list can be blown up and divided into however many codices they have now, then so can anybody's. Grand Alliance Tau.

I really want GW to pick one and be consistent. Either everybody gets a ton of army lists for all their subgroups, or no one does.

Nobody benefits from Space Marine favoratism, including, after a point, Space Marine players, because of how it limits everybody's game experience.

(Except for in 30k, the We Seriously Just Want to Sell Space Marines and Nothing Else Game. Because it's more fun when everybody's army is the same, right?)

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Wed Apr 26 2017, 09:23

@Calyptra wrote:
(Except for in 30k, the We Seriously Just Want to Sell Space Marines and Nothing Else Game. Because it's more fun when everybody's army is the same, right?)

Not sure about more fun but it's damn sure more balanced. FW have also generally done a good job reflecting the theme of each Legion in their rules. I play Blood Angels and a 30K BA army plays exactly how you would expect them to, and that's before they've even had any special units or their Primarch! If only I could say the same for their 40K counterparts!


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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Wed Apr 26 2017, 10:15

Picked this up from another forum (ignore numbering):

18. No more Destroyer-type Weapons.

19. No Shooting into or out of a close combat (no change from 7e, but different from AoS).

20. Initiative characteristic is gone.

21. Fixed rolls To-Hit for both close combat and shooting.

22. Cover will affect the Armour Save.

23. Chapter/Legion Traits will stay.

24. Example Characteristics block for Tactical Squad, Terminator Squad, Dreadnought, and Roboutte Guilliman provided

25. Alternating Actions (AoS style) for who attacks first in subsequent rounds of close combat.

26. Both of the fixed To-Hit rolls can be modified by in-game effects.

27. In addition to the 2+ Save (on a single D6) Terminators will have additional special rules to make them more survivable.

28. Larger vehicles (like Land Raiders and Imperial Knights) will have dozens of wounds.

29. Flyers are going to work like all other miniatures in the game, but they all have their own special rules and abilities.

30. As there are no Templates, there are no Scatter die.

31. Guard will still have Platoons.

32. The Psychic phase is different than current; Pete Foley will reveal more on Psychics later.

33. Chaos and Imperium are similar to the Grand Alliances of AoS; Xenos Factions are more granular.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - Live Q&A Takeaways    Wed Apr 26 2017, 10:25

I hope they don't screw up psychics. I really enjoy that element of the game(not necessarily the implementation, but the idea), and I really don't want it to be worthless or overpriced.

I've heard they're talking about limiting the positive effects of psychic buffs to the faction of the buffer so that you can't use psychics from one faction with a buffee from another faction to create unforeseen deathstars.

I'd like the psychic power generation and psychic phase in general to be faster, but I don't want it to suck.

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