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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sat Apr 22 2017, 14:23

Its confirmed.

https://warhammer40000.com/

No actual rules info yet, but they released an FAQ:

Is my army still valid?
Yes, it certainly is! You’ll still be able to use your army in the new edition of Warhammer 40,000.
All current armies will be supported with new rules.

Can I still use all my models?
Yes. Every Warhammer 40,000 miniature we sell today will be usable in the new edition of
Warhammer 40,000. What’s more, they’ll be supported with new rules, which will be available
from the get go in handy, low-cost books.

Even Forge World models?
Yes, even all of your Warhammer 40,000 Forge World models.

Wait, did you guys blow up the universe?
Nope. This is very much still the Warhammer 40,000 setting you know and love. Now, that’s not
to say we won’t see the story advance - there’s some pretty epic stuff ahead! You can certainly
expect to see the story arcs that began in the recent Gathering Storm campaign books continue
to unfold with plenty of exciting developments to look forward to...

How can I get the rules?
We’re going to make it easier than ever to get your hands on the rules and start playing.
The core rules for the game will be free, and you’ll have several options on how you get your
hands on the full rulebook. Watch this space for more.

Have you dumbed down 40K?
Not at all. We’ve made it easier for new people to enter and get to grips with the basics. At the
same time, we’ve made sure you can add as much depth and complexity as you like - there’s
some fantastic new gameplay elements coming. What we’ve done is reexamine every aspect of the game, and made plenty of improvements, many based on the gaming community’s
feedback and suggestions. If you play today, this game is recognisably still Warhammer 40,000.

What happens to my codexes?
The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soon. If you do want to
pick any up, now’s the time - as all of the great hobby content and background information will
be as valid as ever.

What's in the new starter box?
A new starter box? That’d be exciting! I guess we’d fill it with some awesome new miniatures...
(come on, we can’t spoil all the surprises for you!)

Are you getting rid of points?
Not at all. There will be a full points system, for use in matched play - one of three ways to play
covered in the rulebook.

What do you mean “3 ways to play”?
We realise that people like to play Warhammer 40,000 in different ways. 3 broad systems are
covered in the new edition: 1) Open play is the most flexible, and easiest to get started with,
allowing you to use any miniatures you like. 2) Narrative play is where you can refight the iconic
battles of the 41st Millennium, or create your own campaigns and sagas. 3) Matched play is
designed for more balanced and competitive games, ideal for gaming clubs, leagues and
tournaments. However you want to enjoy playing Warhammer 40,000, there will be rules for
that.

Why should I not just stick with current Warhammer 40,000?
This is the version of Warhammer 40,000 you've been asking for. We've listened to your
feedback, and we really believe that this is the best Warhammer 40,000 has ever been.

Will the rules be updated annually (ala, the General's Handbook)?
What a great idea! We've had such a fantastic response to our community-led approach with the
Warhammer Age of Sigmar rules updates that we're committed to doing the same for
Warhammer 40,000. You’ll be able to submit your questions and queries on the Warhammer
40,000 Facebook page and we'll make sure we continue to evolve the game as feedback rolls
in.

I haven’t played 40K in a while...
Welcome back! The new Warhammer 40,000 is easier to learn and quicker to play, but still has
all the tactical, strategic and narrative depth you could want from a game set in the incredibly
rich setting of the 41st Millennium. It’s going to be easier than ever to get started, and more fun
than ever to master.

Why should I trust you?
Come on! This is New Games Workshop™
Seriously though, everything we're talking about now is just an extension of all the community
engagement work we've been doing over this last year and a half. We've learned a lot from you
guys and gals, and we've tried really hard to make sure everything you've asked for is included.
And if we've missed something? Drop us a line on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page and
let us know. We'll make sure your requests are given proper consideration.

Where can I find out more?
We’ll be running daily articles on the run up to release on warhammer-community.com. Every
aspect of the new edition will be covered, from rules, to new miniatures and advancements in
the setting.

I love it. I want it. When can I have it!
Really soon. You’ll be playing the new Warhammer 40,000 this year.
We’ll let you know when we have more news on an exact release date. Stay posted.
For the latest news, follow us on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page.​

What do I do now?
Now's the time to start getting your army ready.
With the addition of 3 ways to play, there are now more ways to build your collection than ever
before. Open play frees you from all constraints, so now's the time to just pick a model you've
always wanted and paint it up. For you narrative players, why not start theming your collection
around your favourite battle? Just like many of you, we want our armies to be fighting fit for
matched play in the new edition. That's why you'll be able to read daily articles on the
Warhammer Community site that will tell you all about the new rules, great units to include and
tactics for every army.

*The edition’s not even out and you guys have an FAQ - how times have changed!
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sat Apr 22 2017, 14:43

My initial reaction is that we knew all this, but nice to see it confirmed.
Some elements concern me - the console gamers cry of backwards compatibility for example.
Other things give me hope, such as their claim that they've listened to feedback. I can only hope that they listened to the feedback which said "don't just copy AoS".
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sat Apr 22 2017, 15:15

Dumping all current codexes is a good thing, there was no way to fix the game without doing so. Sure, people might bitch and complain about the money they've spent on it but I'll keep mine for the fluff and really wont care about the loss of bad rules.
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sat Apr 22 2017, 15:21

Additional:

"A few of you might be wondering how the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 affects Forge World’s Horus Heresy rules and army lists. Well, for the moment, it won’t! You can carry on using the existing Warhammer 40,000 ruleset for your Horus Heresy games."

And someone asked about Black Templars and Sisters, and was responded to by saying they will have rules in the new edition. The phrasing seemed to basically confirm a starting rules set for all if not most factions from the start.
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sat Apr 22 2017, 16:03

Good. Hopefully, they've put some actual thought into our rules this time, and remembered to consult Phil Kelly/Jes Goodwin's design notes from 5th edition (such as the models being designed specifically for kitbashing, so one needn't be limited to just the wargear options in one particular box - it seems like whoever designed the 7th ed codex completely forgot this).
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sat Apr 22 2017, 17:21

When they say they listened to our feedback I hope that means we don't have weapons that are useless to use versus the million and one flavors of Space Marines, regain our mobility, and get back some of the uniqueness our codex lost when it went from 5th edition to 7th. Oh and I hope they give us tools on par with other codices so that we don't have to rely on allies (to be competitive) if we don't want to.
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sat Apr 22 2017, 17:33

WH40K R.I.P.?

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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sat Apr 22 2017, 17:46

We will not know until we actually see the rules as to whether this is good, terrible, or somewhere in the middle for our different subjective opinions.
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sat Apr 22 2017, 17:52

Thank goodness. Might actually draw me back into 40k again

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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sat Apr 22 2017, 18:20

I think it's interesting how many people unhappy with the lack of backwards compatability were seemingly fine with the lack of backwards compatibility with previous editions. It's almost as if it wasn't a problem until it effected them personally.

That is not a comment directed at anyone in particular. I often find that newer players can be dismissive of the game's history. Well, now every noob who has ever made snide comments when I talk about missing things from Rogue Trader or 2nd ed gets to experience some of the same.

...I'm gonna make popcorn.

Not really a constructive comment, I know, but we don't have much information at this point.

I do appreciate the acknowledgement of how badly they messed up with Warhammer and Age of Sigmar. Not as much as i would appreciate them bringing the Old World back, but it's something.

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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sat Apr 22 2017, 18:24

I think ditching all current codices is a good thing too. They'll still have codices, the game just won't be compatible with the old ones. I think a ground up redesign of the game could be amazing or terrible, but we'll just have to wait and see.

I really hope there aren't a lot of people who want to do open play around here. It sounds like 40k absent any real rules, where you just roll dice to see what kills what.

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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sat Apr 22 2017, 19:02

From my experience with AoS no one wants to play open play. I mean I do but my take on AoS is unique. If 40k follows a similar model no one will play open play.

That being said the only thing here that bothers me is the advancement of the storyline, which I guess I'll just have to continue to ignore.

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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sat Apr 22 2017, 19:31

@Calyptra wrote:
I think it's interesting how many people unhappy with the lack of backwards compatability were seemingly fine with the lack of backwards compatibility with previous editions


I think the trouble is that we haven;t faced such a thing in a LONG time. Since 3rd Edition, every new rules set has been a small leap, but has never wiped out every army book altogether. In fact I don't think any Codex (for 40k) has been made useless by a new rules release since the jump from 2nd to 3rd. Every edition change from 3rd to 7thy has still allowed the use of existing Codexes.
I'd also wager that a lot of people playing today may not have been with the game then, so may not have experienced this at all.
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sat Apr 22 2017, 22:39

Dang! Was about to buy Codices Craftworld and Harlequins for Ynnari Shenanigans, glad i didn't xD

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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sun Apr 23 2017, 00:50

@Squidmaster wrote:
@Calyptra wrote:
I think it's interesting how many people unhappy with the lack of backwards compatability were seemingly fine with the lack of backwards compatibility with previous editions


I think the trouble is that we haven;t faced such a thing in a LONG time. Since 3rd Edition, every new rules set has been a small leap, but has never wiped out every army book altogether. In fact I don't think any Codex (for 40k) has been made useless by a new rules release since the jump from 2nd to 3rd. Every edition change from 3rd to 7thy has still allowed the use of existing Codexes.
I'd also wager that a lot of people playing today may not have been with the game then, so may not have experienced this at all.

Sure. And I can absolutely sympathize with people who just never thought it would happen to them. It's the people who thought it would never happen to them while calling players like me things like "grognards" and telling us that the early editions were bad and that we should just forget them entirely, or some such.

*popcorn*

Also, the people who were saying, "Warhammer deserved to be blown up and ended," who are now saying, "Oh no! Not *my* game!"

*more popcorn*

Yes, it's schadenfreude, even if it is directed at what I perceive to be a mix of hypocracy and failure of compassion.

I think there's a correct response to this sort of thing, which is, "Man, I'm sorry that a game you loved and invested countless hours in was discontinued/replaced/exploded. Because I am involved in this hobby myself I can understand how that must feel." Note how that's different from, "Your game sucked and deserved to die."

Not everyone who's unhappy about this said Warhammer deserved to be thrown under the bus or that I shouldn't keep using my Rogue Trader era models for some reason. It's just that center of the venn diagram whose tears are delicious.

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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sun Apr 23 2017, 01:25

For the record I was sad for Fantasy players when that died, especially when it was replaced with a napkin drawing, and I firmly believe 3rd edition 40k was one of the best times for the hobby because it didn't take itself so damn seriously. Some of the best people in the hobby still rock original 90s Metallica shirts, jean shorts, mullets, and "Space Orks".

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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sun Apr 23 2017, 02:01

The worst examples of these interactions did not take place on this forum. I'm not trying to shame anyone here, and it honestly is a personal failing on my part that a i've allowed those experiences to get under my skin.

And people on the Internet are... people. Who are on the Internet. I've encountered this stuff in stores too, but nobody's ever called my models "revolting" to my face.

(Also, is it me, or are a lot of people who go on about how ugly the old models are not very good at painting? It's a little weird to be told your models are ugly by someone who isn't willing to put in the time to make their own models look nice.)

40k is changing again. Apparently Space Marines are changing again. No matter what, some people will be unhappy with the changes, because something they liked will have been replaced with something they don't. Too many different people are getting too many different things out of the game and hobby for GW to be able to make everyone happy.

I like smaller, more granular games, which is what 40k was when i started. I don't like giant Apocalypse games with buckets of dice, but some people do. If the game goes back to something like what it was before, I will be happy but they will not.

I think I'm rambling at this point. Maybe the best I can hope for with this is a little more empathy between players old, less old, and new. (At least it seems more productive than me throwing things at them while screaming that they are hobbying wrong and that they need to get off my space lawn.)

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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sun Apr 23 2017, 03:05

From what I understand the Gathering Storm books, like the codexes, are being made irrelevant by this in all but their story, which is being kept and expanded upon. They're throwing the baby out the window and keeping the bathwater.

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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sun Apr 23 2017, 03:25

@TeenageAngst wrote:
From what I understand the Gathering Storm books, like the codexes, are being made irrelevant by this in all but their story, which is being kept and expanded upon. They're throwing the baby out the window and keeping the bathwater.

Just like every other supplement.

It stands to reason that if the codices are no longer valid ruleswise, then supplements will be affected in the same fashion. They'll likely release Ynarri army rules along with everything else on day 1.
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sun Apr 23 2017, 04:38

The shelf next to me contains: Rogue Trader, the Compendium, Waargh the Orks!, Freebooterz, Ere We Go!, the 2nd ed Codex Chaos, the 3rd ed rulebook, 10 different 3rd ed codices, Cityfight, Chapter Approved, Index Astartes volumes 1 and 2, the rulebook from 4th or 5th edition ed (I'm honestly not sure), the 5th ed Dark Eldar codex, the 6th ed rulebook, the hardback Necromunda rulebook, Battles in the Underhive, the Inquisitor rulebook, and Warp Storm. (Rather worryingly, I have no idea where my Battlefleet Gothic rulebook and Armada have gotten to.) All of this is next to the 7th ed rules and assorted codices; books from Mordheim and the last 3 editions of Fantasy are on the shelf below.

I cherish many of those old books for their art and lore, and find that I still periodically reference them, especially the Rogue Trader ones.

I'm sharing this catalogue in part to contextualize the obsalesence of 40k books, but also to point out that a book you still want to look at 10 or 20 years later is a book worth owning.

(One of these days I'd like to pick up the Compilation and the Vehicle Guide from Rogue Trader, if I can find them reasonably priced on Ebay.)

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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sun Apr 23 2017, 12:27

Meh, you can understand a certain amount of schadenfreude certainly, some wargamer types over the internet do leave you with a really bad taste in your mouth. But you're also liable to meet some really fun, friendly types who you'd hate to see suffer due to their game being potentially ruined.

I must confess on a personal note that I don't suffer the same apprehension others seem to over this new edition. Will just wait to see what actually arrives before passing judgement.
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sun Apr 23 2017, 12:48

I fear that the game will continue being a horribly balanced mess. I am hopeful that I will actually be able to play the models in my army that I like and actually have a chance at winning. Losing because of unit choice sucks.

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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sun Apr 23 2017, 13:49

I will be cautiously optimistic about what a new edition will look like.

Really interesting that the rules are changing enough that the current army books are not compatible. Was thinking of shopping for some Ynnari stuff for a new concept army I had, but suddenly that's not quite so intriguing, as the ideas might not be useful when the new rules are in play.

A few months of finishing off some old projects seems like the plan. Fallen Eldar Daemon Prince could be next project to finish.

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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sun Apr 23 2017, 15:31

Theres apparently a few hidden easter eggs in the new 40k site, amongst them this image of new SPace Marines:



Cadia will also still be a warzone despite its destruction:



And something else is coming to Armageddon. Angron's second attempt?





And supposedly those Factions listed in the new site were chosen more on narrative than rules. Which might explain why Daemonkin were omitted.....
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PostSubject: Re: 40k 8th Edition confirmed   Sun Apr 23 2017, 17:23

Personally I don't fear the coming of 8th in the end, it cannot be any worse then what happened with our 7th edition codex. I just hope that their adjustment of all codices to 8th edition in parallel results in a much more balanced game and that they sought out people to develop them and play test them that don't have a bias against that faction.
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