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 eligibility of the Ynarii

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amorrowlyday
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Thu Apr 13 2017, 00:23

I vehemently disagree. It's a The Great Harlequin army, but I take your point.
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lament.config
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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Fri Apr 14 2017, 10:41

It seems like the whole thing was put in motion by Harlequins and Eldrad.

I like that Yvraine's backstory shows a transition from various paths, being a corsair, and finally ending up fighting in Commorragh's arenas. I didn't mind the over all story and look forward to new lore in the future.

Rules wise, most of my DE are meched up, reavers, or coven. Reavers stand out as clear winners of the three. Soulburst doesn't benefit venoms as much as other troops. Still, the new book gave more competitive builds some really solid buffs and I've built new lists and played with new units that I had not tried previously.

That said hopefully, DE will get some new formations, units, and whatever else 8th brings that don't hinge on them being combined with CWE.
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mattblowers
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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Fri Apr 14 2017, 14:57

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:

The army rules are strong. They sort of force you to play in a particular way in order to maximize use of those army rules.

The rules for the Yncarne are interesting, but the Yncarne is overpriced and the psychic powers it has access to aren't great. I could do a lot better for 275 points.

The powers are meh, I'll give you that. The power that is S:3 AP:2 has really worked well for me in situations, but otherwise he's just a warp charge battery and gets to DTW on a 4+. He is a scalpel rather than a sledgehammer though and you have to play him really cagey in order to get the maximum benefit out of him. I recently took him to an ITC GT and he centered my army pretty well. I lost one game with him because I made a tactical mistake that came back and bit me. Otherwise he never died. You typically can't say the same for a WK. I play a ton of reavers in my Yannari list and I have found that I tend to use soulburst more for zooming all over the table than for actually putting out damage. It makes the army really unpredictable for your opponent and there is literally no place on the table you can't touch. I've since refined my lists a bit more and am taking a DE CAD with Yannari for some much needed CAD. The Yannari has a ton of potential and unique ways to play if you don't try to only maximize CWE scatbikes and WKs. Scatbikes whilst still good are a pretty old tech at this point. That's my two cents and YMMV but I'm still really loving the Yannari and trying to play them in a DE way. I've given up on Harelquines, they just aren't good no matter you do.
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Fri Apr 14 2017, 16:27

@mattblowers wrote:
I've given up on Harelquines, they just aren't good no matter you do.
I disagree, Harleys have great support IC, second just to farseers.
Their troops and vehicles are bad, the bikes are fine in the formation.
You can put a stock shadowseer in practically any eldar unit and he'll do something for you.
The death jester is gold if the enemy is not fearless.
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mattblowers
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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Fri Apr 14 2017, 18:38

I'm glad you've had luck with them. The bikes are good in a vacuum, and the formation makes them decently survivable with re-rolls on jink, but with no skilled rider they are inferior to reavers in combat and scat bikes are much better at shooting. I really tried to work them into lists, but they were always dead weight. They are overpriced and under perform and the Yannari special rules really don't help them at all. Now taking the Visarch and running them CAD I think has real potential because Troupes would then be ObSec. At the ITC tournament level of play Harlequins just aren't good. To be fair no elite army is good in ITC play. They don't hold up to Deathstars and you will be outscored by MSU lists.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Sat Apr 15 2017, 01:54

@mattblowers wrote:
I lost one game with him because I made a tactical mistake that came back and bit me. Otherwise he never died. You typically can't say the same for a WK.

Right, because a wraithknight is on the table for a minimum of 1 turn longer than the Yncarne, and is a clear threat both in ranged combat and melee, so a wraithknight is a major target priority. The same isn't necessarily true for the Yncarne. Furthermore, generally speaking, a wraithknight is significantly harder to kill, being both +2 toughness, and nearly immune to sniper and poison weapons, which means if your opponents ARE killing the wraithknight more often than killing the Yncarne, that the wraithknight is soaking up MUCH more firepower, thus conferring protection to the rest of your army.

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DEfan
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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Sat Apr 15 2017, 21:28

I have watched, intermittently, the development of the Ynnarri. I think I would hate to play against them because of the bonus phases they'll be getting. Wraithguard with D-scythes seem filthy.

Does this Soul-Burst stuff work when flamer templates or large blasts hit multiple Ynnari units? Potentially a squad could move away from being hit?

Edit: I think I found the answer for that in another thread.

What I will add though, is that GW had a chance to focus on some lack lustre units and make them great. Instead, the regular strong Eldar stuff, which I feel bad about using at times, seems to have got WAY stronger, too. Our national tournament is now flooded with Eldar.

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mattblowers
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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Mon Apr 17 2017, 14:11

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:




Right, because a wraithknight is on the table for a minimum of 1 turn longer than the Yncarne, and is a clear threat both in ranged combat and melee, so a wraithknight is a major target priority. The same isn't necessarily true for the Yncarne. Furthermore, generally speaking, a wraithknight is significantly harder to kill, being both +2 toughness, and nearly immune to sniper and poison weapons, which means if your opponents ARE killing the wraithknight more often than killing the Yncarne, that the wraithknight is soaking up MUCH more firepower, thus conferring protection to the rest of your army.


I don't disagree at all that a WK is better in almost every way than is Yncarne. I'm not a fan of playing only the top units in the game. I would prefer to take lesser used units and surprise a few people. I'm not trying to win it all, I don't have the energy to play a single list for so long that I can play it in my sleep. It's a hobby and we all play for different reasons. That being said Whilst the WK ==> Yncarne comparison is the go to for a lot of people (they use the same slot and cost roughly the same points) they aren't a direct comparison. Yncarne is a scaple whilst the WK is a sledgehammer. The WK will put out far more damage than will Yncarne so of course he is a higher target priority. The way I have played Yannari is to not have anything that's a huge threat. The first thing they kill is my scatbikes and d-cannons. I just use them for distraction and to get my opponent out of position. It's working pretty decent already. I've done well in ITC with it so far and tied for 1st in an RTT non-ITC event with it. I could take stronger lists and probably place better, but taking mostly DE with Yncarne has been more satisfying for me. The Yncarne is the anchor of my list and often is the catalyst that swings the game in my favor in the last few rounds. Not everyone likes him, that's OK.
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