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asdrubael Vect124
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PostSubject: eligibility of the Ynarii   Sat Apr 08 2017, 11:16

So what is the viewing of this forum on the Ynarii?

are we allowed to discuss them or is this specifically ONLY Dark Eldar?
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Sat Apr 08 2017, 13:18

There are sub forums for other pointy ear kin - http://www.thedarkcity.net/c12-mercenaries-allies

I will add that right now, assuming you are doing DE Ynnari, there is no reason to not discuss them in the DE Forums.

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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Sat Apr 08 2017, 15:15

I would say its all good in the hood, so long as the DE are present in the lists. CWE Ynnari are an abomination with their scattbike/aspect warrior/wraith-unit double shooting, and should be purged from the 40k-verse as quickly as possible.
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asdrubael Vect124
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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Sat Apr 08 2017, 15:24

Fish i run a ynarri list dominated by DE hehe
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Sat Apr 08 2017, 18:39

Ynnari are unfortunately part of the game now so they can be discussed as much as normal DE on the forums. Some of us just have strong feelings on the subject.

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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Sun Apr 09 2017, 10:33

I take it you dislike the Ynnari faction?
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Arani
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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Sun Apr 09 2017, 11:14

Never realized how much I loved FNP until I started running my DE as Ynnari. But in all honesty, I really dislike the Ynnari as a faction. The story from the gathering storm book felt pretty weak, and really made me question why my Kabal and Cult would want anything to do with them after what happened to Commorragh, and essentially their lifestyle.

But hey, what can you do?

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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Sun Apr 09 2017, 14:20

The Avatar gives FNP, and even then FNP doesn't do much when your only T3 lol,
i haven't read through the book, and now you've made me supremely curious so there goes about 30 minutes of my day thanks alot XD
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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Sun Apr 09 2017, 14:27

That 5+ FNP makes things surprisingly survivable, especially when tacked on with cover saves.

But yeah the Yncarne gives a little​ 12" bubble, but I dunno', I just hate the fluff of Ynnari so much. I'd rather just struggle with my kabal using flat DE rules than dip into the Reborn Warhost shenanigans.

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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Sun Apr 09 2017, 15:19

very fair point, i know another person who doesn't play 40k anymore because the fluff sucks.

personally, my heart always belongs to the DE and it shall never change. so any Ynarri army i use will have a majority of DE core. i'm currently debating selling my DA army and swapping it into DE but im not sure... ffs haha.

anyway i really enjoy the triumvirate's ability to give everybody fearless
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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Sun Apr 09 2017, 16:30

A Ynnari cult was the personal fluff for my army for years before the Ynnari supplement came out, so I'm beyond stoked to have it available.
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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Sun Apr 09 2017, 17:16

Quote :
I take it you dislike the Ynnari faction?

Dislike isn't the word I'd use. Loathe is really more accurate. Not so much with the faction itself, although the faction is so poorly conceived as to be considered broken, it's fluff is so mind-boggling and so poorly written I'm almost ashamed to bring it up because it implies I might have spent the time to read through the entire book or worse, actually spent money on it.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Sun Apr 09 2017, 18:55

I like the Ynnari as a faction. I like the models. I like the story. I dislike the rules for a number of different reasons.

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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Mon Apr 10 2017, 04:40

I had a couple people PM me asking for my thoughts on why I dislike the Ynnari rules, so I'm just going to repost my answer here, so anyone wondering out there can just know:

The army rules are strong. They sort of force you to play in a particular way in order to maximize use of those army rules.

The rules for the Yncarne are interesting, but the Yncarne is overpriced and the psychic powers it has access to aren't great. I could do a lot better with that 275 points elsewhere.

Yvraine is also overpriced, considering that you can just get 2 farseers instead, who automatically EACH start out as a better psyker than her, with access to a lot more psychic disciplines(including both that she has access to).

The Visarch is actually OK, though a little bland when you don't consider his rules involving Yvraine(since I wouldn't suggest taking her, basically ever.)

The reason I said I don't like the rules is because I don't like the rules for the unique models. They aren't anywhere near the power level of the imperial models that were released in the same gathering storm series. This is counterbalanced by a strong army rule, but that army rule doesn't really give us interesting or varied ways to play the army. Instead, it encourages us to take the most overpowered shooting elements of the existing armies in order to best use the new rule, and I think that is a shame. We had an opportunity here to really do some interesting things, and I think what we ended up with rules-wise was poorly priced, poorly synergized, and unimaginative.

That said, you can absolutely use the new rules to win games. No problem there. It won't be interesting, but it will work.

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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Mon Apr 10 2017, 07:21

I'm mostly curious what you liked about the story.

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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Mon Apr 10 2017, 07:25

In all 3 cases (ie the 3 GS books) it felt like the writers went to the studio and said...

"Hey - we have 50 pages of awesome story!"

and the response they got was...

"Yeah, we only have 20 pages space for you - so lets see what we can trim!"

There are several great ideas in each book but some feel like they are missing key parts of the story so that the story does not feel so contrived and hasty. Several parts of book 3 in particular feel like they are missing a page or 2 to make it all seem like it follows along.

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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Mon Apr 10 2017, 07:38

@Massaen you see at first I tried to rationalize it like that, but the *tone* of the book was so dry I can't believe they intended it to be something else. Every part of it I read is in the same stale, boring third person narrative. And yet at no point do they trim any of the excessive, droll, tedious action sequences that do nothing but distract from the long and winding story they're trying to tell. If they just gave us the dry story it would be okay exposition, if they did some good action and cut the story out we could draw our own conclusions, maybe give us lots of open ended threads to fill in with our imaginations. They did neither, which is why to me, all 3 books never happened.

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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Mon Apr 10 2017, 16:38

Overall I liked the story, both the book in general and the overarching tale of Ynneads rise. That said, I did not like Yvraine as the main character. She was not a compelling protagonist in the least. I think the story would have been better had they made an existing character the protagonist. Yriel, including his death/rebirth or Eldrad would have been a better launch to the story too imo. Though how to get Dark Eldar involved without starting in commoragh would have been a bit more difficult. Also I get the "they must battle past each Chaos faction and their own Haemonculus "allies" to get to the end, but there were just too many repetitive fight scenes.
What upset me most in the story was Lilith letting herself get cut across the arm in the opening duel. I thought one of her troupes was that none had ever marred her skin before, why would she let Yvraine? When at that point Yvraine was only an upstart rival and not yet the death gods voice.
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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Mon Apr 10 2017, 19:46

@StackedDeck wrote:
Overall I liked the story, both the book in general and the overarching tale of Ynneads rise.

Yeah, this is a big part of it for me. Overall, the story of Ynnead's rise is what I was saying I liked, stretching back to the fluff from deathwatch. I recall saying on here when the deathwatch story happened and people thought Eldrad failed that I interpreted it differently, and that the streak of light that flew off into the stars might just have been Ynnead. Turns out, I was fairly close to correct, and I think that sort of storytelling is a good way to go. I don't really care that much about the quality of the writing in these books. The micro of the wording, and how, specifically, we arrived at the overarching narrative isn't as important to me as the macro, and the larger picture. And I like the story in a macro sense. For example, if you give me the story in bullet points, I like the trajectory of the story, where it's been, where it seems to be going.

@StackedDeck wrote:
What upset me most in the story was Lilith letting herself get cut across the arm in the opening duel. I thought one of her troupes was that none had ever marred her skin before, why would she let Yvraine? When at that point Yvraine was only an upstart rival and not yet the death gods voice.

I agree that it somewhat tarnishes Lelith's reputation for badassery. That said, it adds character, and depth to her story. Lelith still has not had an opponent's blade touch her flesh, save one. Perhaps that element of the story was meant to demonstrate that Yvraine was an extremely formidable warrior even before her rebirth into the voice of Ynnead.

I mean, she has stats almost equal to that of Lelith herself. She just doesn't have the additional supporting rules to make her amazing in CC. She's still pretty decent in CC though. Sort of like an ap3 succubus without grenades.

It's just that she's not worth her points because a succubus does that job better, and a farseer does the psyker job better, so you're generally better off just buying one of each, which you could do for the points cost of Yvraine.

Like I said, I like the story. Not so much the rules they made to go along with it. They could have done far better.

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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Mon Apr 10 2017, 20:03

Quote :
Perhaps that element of the story was meant to demonstrate that Yvraine was an extremely formidable warrior even before her rebirth into the voice of Ynnead.

It was the laziest way of saying "look how cool this really cool new character is please buy her model." But then again we look for entirely different things in the writing. You like the gestalt, while the means by which we get there are paramount to me.

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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Mon Apr 10 2017, 20:05

@TeenageAngst wrote:
But then again we look for entirely different things in the writing. You like the gestalt, while the means by which we get there are paramount to me.

I think this is probably a fair and accurate statement.

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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Tue Apr 11 2017, 04:49

I read analytical philosophy and white papers. Story format did not bother me in the least. Like Jim I've been rolling with an extremely similar personal narrative for my army so having it canonized around someone else is fine by me. The only thing that bothered me is actually directly rules related. The central detachment of the reborn warhost should not mirror the CAD in FOC-slots. When one of your 3 donor factions, specifically the one with only a single, and excessively large to boot, formation looses half it's elite choices and half it's heavy support choices, and had twice as many fast attack choices as either of those to begin with, the detachment shouldn't have been capped at 2-3-6-3-3 and an infinte number of formations. I firmly believe it should have been an RRD with 3 HQ's (3-3-6-6-3).

That would have been super fluffy, not the least of which because a maxed out detachment without any formations would have been 21 units which can be written as 7-7-7. More than 2 HQ's makes sense because at it's fluff core the story of Yvraine is a "collect the ancient heroes" story, and they make sense mechanically with the aims of the ynnari. More FA's instantly makes maximizing soulburst with large squads less important since those small squads would now be able to utilize their cheapness and ease of death as well as substantial offensive power.

My largest problem is completely unfounded and doesn't have anything to do with the release itself. It's that the army feels like a malekith the eternity king army, the elf union army from the end of end times for fantasy, and in age of sigmar the restrictive nature of battleline choices in matched play prevents me from playing the game because although in theory I am able to field totally bonkers cool lists that borrow from different factions to instantiate my personal fluff in reality the tax necessary to do this ensures that playing the way I want to is impossible in matched play. My concern is that this is exactly where 8th is bringing us: Niche specific factions/alliances each with good flavor and competitive rules, but with highly restrictive means of fielding them in concert. For someone who almost exclusively plays grotesques, scourges, and reavers supported by "allies" (in personal fluff full fledged main force personnel with backstories), I'm terrified because that was literally the army yvraine escaped from in the arena prior to establishing her faction, and I'm not convinced GW will allow for units to exist as wholly different members of multiple subfactions.

I'm afraid. I'm afraid that I'm going to have to change to match GW's whim. Not in tactics or strategy, mind, but in aesthetic and as a dyed in the wool dark eldar player, arguably the faction most grounded in personal aesthetic, I'm terrified that GW will simultaneously invalidate my personal aesthetic and fail to update IA11.
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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Tue Apr 11 2017, 06:32

Those are legitimate concerns, and I hope they don't come to pass.

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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Tue Apr 11 2017, 06:34

I had the displeasure of flipping through the Sylvaneth book and it basically dictates what your army composition is in order to secure the necessary, and I do mean necessary, command benefits. There are like maybe half a dozen "lists" to choose from.

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PostSubject: Re: eligibility of the Ynarii   Thu Apr 13 2017, 00:04

Weirdly, Yvraine is one of the only things I like about the fluff. She actually displays a decent variety of emotion for a GW character (and barring the Undead in End Times most GW characters are bloody atrocious).

The rest is a bit meh though. The story isn't too bad but the actual writing is typical GW blandness, with mostly to-and-fro attacks between armies.


My biggest problem with the Ynnari faction is that it was initially marketed as a new faction, but literally is just Craftworld Eldar with better rules and the ability to add in Harlequins and half the Dark Eldar. It genuinely could've been a clever thing with certain Craftworld units removed to produce an interesting and unique list - but nope.

Just straight up Craftworld upgrade with theft from the other Eldar books.
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