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drdoom222222
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PostSubject: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Thu Apr 06 2017, 15:03

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/04/40k-rumors-8th-edition-big-shakeups.html

Assaulting out transports back again?

vehicles with wounds?

templates gone!

Codex gone!

big changes.....
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Sarkesian
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Thu Apr 06 2017, 16:32

Some of these are very welcome additions. I am not sad at the loss of templates at all. Actually I think that makes us more survivable!

I recently bought into AoS and played my first game. I found the rules to be simple but fun. I'm not disheartened that 40k is heading the more simple route. If I can get a game in that takes less than 3 hours I'm gonna be very happy! The slow play is strong at my FLGS....
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Thu Apr 06 2017, 18:10

This sounds bad and people who like AoS with the General's Handbook don't know what a good game is.

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Thu Apr 06 2017, 18:48

Well that's just flat out obtuse.

Why do you even bother to type these things.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Thu Apr 06 2017, 18:58

Because the game is patently better without the General's Handbook, and making 40k more like AoS + GH can only make it worse because it is inherently a worse system.

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Thu Apr 06 2017, 19:09

Sweeping generalizations and personal bias presented as fact. Yeah I think meaningful discourse is off the table.

Have a nice day, though judging from the tone you take in every post I assume you will rail against that fate.

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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Thu Apr 06 2017, 20:24

We should all know by now that the "codecies becoming obsolete" is another way for GW to say "alright we are wiping the power balance slate clean instead of trying to balance codex by codex and will start over and release "war scroll like" books which are in all but name a codex ... This allows them to say they have listened to the players complaints about who is over and under powered and decided the safest and easiest route is to start over instead of tackling it on a slow and case by case basis, the vehicles change is interesting but might not change a vehicles survivability at all or make all vehicles across the board less survivable as they have a toughness value meaning stuff like poison (unless they make up a can't be used on vehicles rule) will be able to damage them the multiple or "double digit" wound count will be countered by the multi damage shots from weapons that were already anti tank, and wyches might become amazing if they get to assualt out of venoms, so long as overwatch is no longer a thing or Dodge extends to overwatch shots, and I like that templates are going away, shedders will now be even more amazing though it might be a huge hit to our liquifier guns and the medusae eye burst and the soul sucking weapons of the cronos got a sideways shift as its large blast no longer scatters but now suffers from only the possibility of only doing g one wound at a time
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Thu Apr 06 2017, 20:32

There's pros and cons to losing templates for sure. The everything is an assault vehicle thing bothers me because there goes one of our major benefits: all our vehicles are assault vehicles. I'm mostly just watching the meteor of terrible AoS style gameplay getting closer though.

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Thu Apr 06 2017, 20:49

Well, other parts of the rumor mill are contradicting at least one point in this section of the rumor mill:

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2017/04/8th-edition-check-codices-will-remain.html

My personal guess is that there will be 'get-you-by' FAQs for every army at first, but they'll probably release actual books to replace them over time. After all, doesn't even AoS have books that are sort of like codices, like the new 'Blades of Khorne' book?
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Lyndon
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Thu Apr 06 2017, 20:57

I can't wait for these changes. The game is too bloated. A return to some old rules are welcome as I've never really liked the AP system. i played from m rogue trader.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Thu Apr 06 2017, 21:40

@Archon_91 wrote:
wyches might become amazing if they get to assualt out of venoms

Wyches can already assault out of venoms. All of our vehicles are assault vehicles, so making ALL vehicles able to be assaulted out of is actually something of a nerf to our army. We currently pay a HUGE premium on our transports for being able to assault out of them. They're almost double the price of marine transports.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Generally when faeit says a source is "beyond solid", they're right. And by "generally", I mean they've been 100% correct in every instance I can recall.

So codices aren't going away. They've also said they don't want to invalidate existing codices with 8th edition rules, so expect 8th edition to be close enough that they can just add/subtract the stats for unit types from the main rulebook. If unit types go away and they add the movement stat, I expect things to be presented like this in the new rulebook:

"If units in your codex do not list a movement stat, instead refer to the unit type listed. Infantry use X for their movement stat, jump infantry use Y for their movement stat, GMCs use Z for their movement stat", etc.

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Thu Apr 06 2017, 21:52

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
@Archon_91 wrote:
wyches might become amazing if they get to assualt out of venoms

Wyches can already assault out of venoms. All of our vehicles are assault vehicles, so making ALL vehicles able to be assaulted out of is actually something of a nerf to our army. We currently pay a HUGE premium on our transports for being able to assault out of them. They're almost double the price of marine transports.

If we're lucky (assuming this is one of the rumors that is actually true, of course), then maybe there will be a penalty for charging out of a non-assault vehicle - like half-charge distance, or something like that.
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Mikoneo
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Fri Apr 07 2017, 03:52

If templates are going I think it would be nice to see weapons that used them work off an "X+D6". Would help to prevent things such problems as the supposedly powerful bomb weapons from rolling badly and generating a single wound in a blob of models
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mrmagoo
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Fri Apr 07 2017, 19:31

Some of these are very welcome, but I am still very reluctant to believe any of it. There is no source and this is mostly speculation that I have seen at other sites. It looks like a collection of speculations that have been collected and put into a rumor.

Sorry don't believe any of this.

Minus those that are repeated from the GW post.

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mrmagoo
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Fri Apr 07 2017, 19:33

@krayd wrote:
@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
@Archon_91 wrote:
wyches might become amazing if they get to assualt out of venoms

Wyches can already assault out of venoms. All of our vehicles are assault vehicles, so making ALL vehicles able to be assaulted out of is actually something of a nerf to our army. We currently pay a HUGE premium on our transports for being able to assault out of them. They're almost double the price of marine transports.

If we're lucky (assuming this is one of the rumors that is actually true, of course), then maybe there will be a penalty for charging out of a non-assault vehicle - like half-charge distance, or something like that.

Or they will give assault vehicles a huge bonus. IE Can move 12 and assault out of them.  (This will come up in the next rumor list.)  Smile
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mrmagoo
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Fri Apr 07 2017, 19:45

Here is another Rumor from Faeit quoting from a "Solid" source

8th Edition Check. Codices Will Remain

Yesterday we had some rumors about Codices going the way of the Dodo. Well, we had a quick check in last night from a source that is beyond solid letting us know that this is not the case. The rest of that rumor set, we are not going to get answers for, but for at least the Codex will not vanish.

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2017/04/8th-edition-check-codices-will-remain.html

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Fri Apr 07 2017, 20:22

Faeit's reliability is less than 50%, so we'll see how it plays out.
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mrmagoo
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Fri Apr 07 2017, 21:07

@Jimsolo wrote:
Faeit's reliability is less than 50%, so we'll see how it plays out.

Oh I agree,  Sorry if I make it think anything else.   But that is what I was trying to say about the original.   Cant trust any of them.

Unless its posted on Games-workshop.com or Warhammer-community.com it cant be trusted.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Fri Apr 07 2017, 21:40

@Jimsolo wrote:
Faeit's reliability is less than 50%, so we'll see how it plays out.

Not when they say something like "this source is beyond solid" though. Faeit admittedly posts pretty much ANY rumour they hear that is posited as an actual rumour. Many times, they'll post something and say as much, that it's from a fairly shaky source. Almost all of the time they say "take this with a bit of salt, it's still just a rumour".

In cases where they don't mention salt and say their source is superbly solid, like this, I've never seen them be wrong.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Fri Apr 07 2017, 22:09

Im excited to hear the "June/July" release of 8th.

Remember that the 3ed Edition BRB had stats for every unit of every army (from the codexes of the time). I doubt it would be hard to do something similar to post movement distances. Especially since everyone has every units stats thanks to Battlescribe.

But ya, assault vehicle nerf could affect us, but poison being able to damage vehicles would more than make up for it. Imagine how useful Venoms will be...
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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Mon Apr 10 2017, 07:00

I bet vehicles will be immune to poison and our transports will be extra fast. If there is a movement stat, there is no need to make it as slow as it's now.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Mon Apr 10 2017, 07:22

I love the vitriol and hate for warscrolls... when 40k started that trend in 6th ed with Dataslates per unit and formations...

That's all warscrolls are - dataslates and formations.

I also love the scare tactics of losing codex - again, AoS is releasing them as we speak...

The 3 ways to play inside the generals handbook was an exceptional addition to the game - one that 40k needs to satisfy any player.

The Move stats and armour save mods all come from 2nd ed 40k and of course WHFB so again, that's not AoS rules... that's history from 40k. Ditto on hit modifiers.

Even assaulting out of transports was a thing no to many additions ago... 4th maybe? Memory gets hazy.

This whole circus of people claiming they are Age of Sigmaring 40k is just utter nonsense... 40k did all of this first!

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Mon Apr 10 2017, 07:56

Honestly striking a balance between fluffy rules, power-balance between and within factions, and simplicity is hard. It is easy for us to point out specific problems like OP units or rules that don't make sense, but in my opinion the attitude we should take towards this edition is the same as with any other: understanding it will not be perfect but could very well be an improvement overall.

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Mon Apr 10 2017, 09:05

Of course you're right but there are certain things that could be really easily fixed. Like who thought that Eldar scatter laser bikes were a good idea??

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PostSubject: Re: 8e - More rumours/leaks   Mon Apr 10 2017, 21:27

Easy solution to power levels: nerf everything, add power back via formation. Its easier to balance Gladius vs Decurion than it is to balance SM codex vs Necron codex. I assume this is where we are heading.

And it was 3ed Edition where you could assault out of a rhino. But there was no grav, and you could only get 1-2 plasma guns in a squad. Far different game to what we play now.
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