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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 07:29

@TeenageAngst wrote:
You guys know this is an offshoot game right? Necromunda always had those kinds of rules from what I was told. Who says this will be what 8th is like?

You know that Necromunda had those rules because that's what the 40K rules were at the time right?

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 07:35

What is the ammo roll anyways ?

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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 07:45

@The Red King wrote:
What is the ammo roll anyways ?

I remember reading that on every to hit of 6 you must make an ammo roll. You take a 2D6 and if your result is smaller than the number of the profile your weapon cannot fire for the rest of the game anymore.

Can't say I'm a fan of this mechanic.

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 07:49

So dark lances are less likely to go out then?

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 07:49

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@TeenageAngst wrote:
You guys know this is an offshoot game right? Necromunda always had those kinds of rules from what I was told. Who says this will be what 8th is like?

You know that Necromunda had those rules because that's what the 40K rules were at the time right?

It's like poetry, you see, they rhyme...

Anyway, they already said this game was heavily based off Necromunda. They made no insinuation afaik that it would be the same as new 40k.

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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 07:51

It was on 1d6, not 2... and this part of he weapon rules was never part of 40k

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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 07:52

Jeah but necromunda, id have an update/overhaul by GW as well at some point and they did not change anything.

It might have some similarities and be some testings, but I do not think everything should be considered 1=>1 in 8th edition.

On the save modifier I read it that ranged weapons, have an armour save modifier and melee weapons are strength based, so a s4 melee attack has a -1 a gun with s4 might have 0, -1 , -2 or even more depending on the gun. not a thing stacking the -1 from str and the -2 from the weapon, it would just be needless bookkeeping in that case.

About the dark lance/ bright lance. the dark lance is a special weapon carried by a scourge, while the bright lance is a heavy weapon platform, so that might explain the differences a little bit? It could mean that in our case it is a lot more mobile. And with the extra base size and slower movement it might make sense that they carry more ammo than the lightweight scourge?
Ammo roll is (from necromunda) that if you roll a 6 to hit (or from gorkamorka) a symbol on the rapid fire die, you must roll a die to see if your weapon is out of ammo (useless) for the rest of the game.
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 10:31

@The Red King wrote:
So dark lances are less likely to go out then?

more.

You have to roll 6 or higher for dark lances and 5 or higher for bright lances.

If GW are to stay consistent on how they treat dark eldar the bright lance should also be cheaper and available to more models. ( free upgrade if you include these OP units that you would take anyway? nah, that would never happen.)

I also noticed that the wych cult teams can't upgrade in the "shooting" skills category. I can only hope that this means there will be rules for a kabalite team eventually.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 11:50

I thought someone said you had to roll a 6 or higher for it to go out. Not a 6 or higher for it not to go out. I was confused.

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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 11:55

An easy way to remember is to think "Which method would give Eldar an advantage over Dark Eldar?" Sad

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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 11:57

Well as I said earlier. Our selling point is poison shooting in a game of tough 3 models. I don't think I have any reason to expect anything good for us.

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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 13:37

@The Red King wrote:
Well as I said earlier. Our selling point is poison shooting in a game of tough 3 models. I don't think I have any reason to expect anything good for us.

Well, there will still be monstrous creatures in 40k (obviously).. and even in this game, there are still units like wraithguard, which are T6. So there is that. Against marines, it will be about as effective as it is now... but with a -1 save mod from the splinter weapon, so it's a buff.

Also, kabalite warriors should actually get a save from bolters. A 6+, but it's better than the nothing that we have now.
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 13:39

@TeenageAngst wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
@TeenageAngst wrote:
You guys know this is an offshoot game right? Necromunda always had those kinds of rules from what I was told. Who says this will be what 8th is like?

You know that Necromunda had those rules because that's what the 40K rules were at the time right?

It's like poetry, you see, they rhyme...

Anyway, they already said this game was heavily based off Necromunda. They made no insinuation afaik that it would be the same as new 40k.

Aside from the presentation at Adepticon where they mentioned the return of the move stat and the return of armor save modifiers, both of which were features of Necromunda, 2nd Edition, and are in this game. Anyways, they're obviously not going to port everything over from Shadow War to 8th Edition, but it might give an idea of what some of the new mechanics will be like. Also, looking at stat lines of weapons might give us an idea of what they're going to look like in the massive dump of 'get you by' army list PDFs that will have to accompany 8th edition, assuming that the rules changes warrant it.
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 14:32

@Cherrycoke wrote:
Why do the special operatives have no points value.

The way it was explained to me is they are free agents, sort of like star players in Blood Bowl. So they would typically be campaign games.

You exchange one of your promethium caches for use of a special operative for one game. You can continue to do it as long as you have caches.

Promethium caches are supposed to be the ranking currency in the game. Initial rules suggest a short campaign run until someone has 15 caches if that helps put it into perspective.
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 15:22

Seems to me the rules make some sense for our models, we do focus on close combat especially with Wyches as the main set of models for our "gangs."  Based on what I can see from the skills we would be able to wreck our Craftworld kin in melee, whereas they may be able to out shoot us.  Which is the way it has always been for wyches.

Our weapons are also much less expensive in terms of points. Our melee weapons are about half the price of the craftworld ones.
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 15:40

Also, does anybody know how this "damage" stat work?

Are excessive wounds from a D3 attack carried over to the unit or are they just wasted?

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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 17:53

@xzandrate wrote:
@Cherrycoke wrote:
Why do the special operatives have no points value.

The way it was explained to me is they are free agents, sort of like star players in Blood Bowl.  So they would typically be campaign games.

You exchange one of your promethium caches for use of a special operative for one game.  You can continue to do it as long as you have caches.

Promethium caches are supposed to be the ranking currency in the game.  Initial rules suggest a short campaign run until someone has 15 caches if that helps put it into perspective.

Thank you!
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 18:28

@The Strange Dark One wrote:
Also, does anybody know how this "damage" stat work?

Are excessive wounds from a D3 attack carried over to the unit or are they just wasted?

It's for use in Necromunda/KT rules, where every model is a unit.

An unsaved wound inflicts as many wounds as the damage stat, IIRC.
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 18:42

My comment was directed exclusively at this necromunda style game as I'm not entirely sold on how exactly these rules will match 8th edition rules.

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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Sun Apr 09 2017, 11:06

So..

Not sure if anyone else has tried Shadow War: Armageddon with their wyches or not yet, but after a measly (and mind numbing) two games of it against CSM, I feel like somehow wychs got even worse.

Whereas normally at least wyches can get a good number of attacks in normal 40k, in SW:A your attacks just serve as extra dice (each of which has a 1/6 chance of penalizing you, and conversely a 1/6 chance of rewarding you) to hope you wind up out rolling your opponent.

I'd like to hear what other people's experiences have been, but I personally am pretty skeptical about the effectiveness of Dark Eldar in SW:A, at least after my experiences today.

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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Sun Apr 09 2017, 11:23

As long as I can't play Kabalite Warriors I won't play it. Maybe as chaos and build an alpha Legion force...
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Sun Apr 09 2017, 15:36

I played 2 games and I couldn't feel more differently. My wyches murdered a team of CSM and a team of guard. To a man.

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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Sun Apr 09 2017, 19:05

I'm not up to date on the rules for SW:A, but perhaps the difference in experiences has to do with how you each equipped your wyches? Maybe you two should compare lists and how you ran them. I'd be interested in seeing the comparison, anyhow. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Sun Apr 09 2017, 19:44

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
I'm not up to date on the rules for SW:A, but perhaps the difference in experiences has to do with how you each equipped your wyches? Maybe you two should compare lists and how you ran them. I'd be interested in seeing the comparison, anyhow. Very Happy

Another thing to keep in mind is that you should probably run them in small packs. You're allowed to make an initiative test to ignore pin results from shooting if you have a (non-novice recruit) model within 2". Also, ganging up on models in hand-to-hand produces much better results than trying to go at it one-on-one.
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Sun Apr 09 2017, 23:12

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
I'm not up to date on the rules for SW:A, but perhaps the difference in experiences has to do with how you each equipped your wyches? Maybe you two should compare lists and how you ran them. I'd be interested in seeing the comparison, anyhow. Very Happy

Personally for my two games I ran a pretty simple list with no debutantes.

I had a Syren with an agoniser whip, plasma grenades, pistol, and soul-seeker rounds as I had extra points.

6 Normal wyches, all with pistols and knives.

1 Bloodbride with a Shardnet and Impaler

In both games I started off out of LOS, used my running to dart from cover to cover (which honestly could of been better, as the terrain was pretty scarce on our generic Sector Imperialis with two big, open roads that ran through each deployment zone)

My opponent meanwhile fielded Alpha Legion CSM, he had 1 champion (I think they're called that), with a bolter, chainsword, pistol, and I believe several other upgrades I don't recall off-hand. He also had another Marine with a heavy bolter, and a third equipped just like the Champion/Chosen with bolter, pistol, and chainsword. And finally he had about 5 cultists with stubguns/autoguns.

Contrary to my approach, my friend set up his heavy bolter, and 1 cultist up high in the backfield to overwatch (what was essentially everything) from a single balcony, while the rest of his force deployed as far forward as possible.

We both took turns advancing, with me slowly trying to jump from cover to cover, attempting to deny as much shooting as possible til I was in LOS.

When I finally did manage to get my charges off, I wasn't very familiar with the differences in the close combat system at the time, and rolled 4 dice worth of attacks for my one wych that made it into close combat (1 base, 1 for adrenalight, 1 for charging, and 1 for 2 CCW's) My opponent meanwhile rolled one dice, which beat my highest dice, and when added to his measly weaponskill of 3 still put him well over me.

He gets two attacks, I get none. He causes two wounds, I fail one save and my Wych goes down. This process essentially repeats itself over and over again throughout the match, with my Wyches consistently losing close combat due to fumbling (1's for attacks), except in one case where I managed to get three Wyches to gang up on a single marine (of which my Bloodbride with shardnet and impaler was part of). Afterwards however, the heavy bolter mowed them all down without even blinking.

After going through and re-reading the rules, I think my friend didn't quite grasp the rules as well as I thought he did, as he was the one who was supposed to be teaching me how to play.

But yeah, that's a short little recap of my experience.

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