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krayd
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PostSubject: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Wed Mar 29 2017, 22:24

Someone on the facebook Dark Eldar group posted images of the rules (obtained from his LGS) for wyche kill-teams for the upcoming Necromun.. er.. Shadow War: Armageddon game. It's pointless for me to post a link here, as the group is a closed group (but if you're a member, you can see them there, obviously).

The images include stats, as well as equipment lists. In addition to normal wyches, you can take Syrens, Bloodbrides, as well as debutantes, which are a type of wyche initiate.

The weapons all have damage and armor save modifier stats.

There is also mention of teaming up with haemonculi and scourges.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Thu Mar 30 2017, 03:11

You should re-post the images here! Very Happy
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Thu Mar 30 2017, 03:41

They are low res - all but impossible to read... at least the ones I saw

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Thu Mar 30 2017, 04:40

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
You should re-post the images here! Very Happy


Here they are. They are somewhat readable, if you have your monitor is large enough/hi-res enough.







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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Thu Mar 30 2017, 04:50

I have no idea what I'm looking at but it can't be any worse than 3.5e grapple rules so w/e let's see how it goes.

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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Thu Mar 30 2017, 11:41

So, who wants to bet that this is sort of a trial-run of 8th ed. rules regarding save modifiers and suchlike? Same thing with movement stats.

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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Thu Mar 30 2017, 11:51

The combat system appears to be the 2e version. Roll 1d6 for each of your attacks, pick the highest, add your WS and compare to opponents total. Loser takes a number of hits equal to the difference.

Oh and Terminators have a 3+ save...on 2d6!

It's 2e edition coming back from the grave!

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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Thu Mar 30 2017, 13:35

It is very much a throw back to all the old skirmish games. Necromunda, Mordeheim, and Gorkamorka.

I would be hard pressed to call this any kind of 8th edition preview, but it will probably be a good chance for them to test some of the numbers for individual movement and the strength modifiers if they follow through on that.
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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Thu Mar 30 2017, 13:51

@xzandrate wrote:
It is very much a throw back to all the old skirmish games.  Necromunda, Mordeheim, and Gorkamorka.

I would be hard pressed to call this any kind of 8th edition preview, but it will probably be a good chance for them to test some of the numbers for individual movement and the strength modifiers if they follow through on that.

Yeah to be honest I thought the same thing, but a couple of the mechanics parallel the teasers about 8th ed. from Adepticon (principally the return of the movement stat and the use of armour modifiers).

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Archon Vitcus
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Thu Mar 30 2017, 13:57

So regular wyches can't take special weapons leaving scourges to be our heavy specialists? I'd rather regular warriors over wyches but I'll save judgement until after its release
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Thu Mar 30 2017, 14:27

@Archon Vitcus wrote:
So regular wyches can't take special weapons leaving scourges to be our heavy specialists? I'd rather regular warriors over wyches but I'll save judgement until after its release

Though I do like getting 2 combat drug results from taking a haemonculus.
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Thu Mar 30 2017, 14:43

@Count Adhemar wrote:
The combat system appears to be the 2e version. Roll 1d6 for each of your attacks, pick the highest, add your WS and compare to opponents total. Loser takes a number of hits equal to the difference.

Oh and Terminators have a 3+ save...on 2d6!

It's 2e edition coming back from the grave!

If these weapon stats are the same as what they will be in 8th edition, then some weapons are going to see considerable buffs.

For example, the haywire blaster is S4 with a -2 armor save. That's a -3 armor save total, so marines would only save on a 6+ vs that.


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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Thu Mar 30 2017, 15:46

This is all very intriguing.

I'm far from agreeing with all the changes, but it looks far more powerful than what we got at the moment. However, we have little to compare those rules to and I am afraid that the Astartes will get the similar power, only with tons of durability on top of that.

Due to the absence of other Cult units I also suspect that this really is just a smaller-scale test of what GW has planned with 8th edition.

Anybody else noticed the absence of the Haywire rule and Grenades? I'm interested to see how they manage vehicles now, perhaps they will receive a toughness value?

They also seem to be removing cover saves, which I'm fine with as well.


Can't say I'm overly enthusiastic but it is nice to see some DE once in a while.

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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Thu Mar 30 2017, 15:55

Well, at least I now have an excuse other than Inner Circle to build and paint wyches.
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Thu Mar 30 2017, 16:13

@The Strange Dark One wrote:


They also seem to be removing cover saves, which I'm fine with as well.
Can't say I'm overly enthusiastic but it is nice to see some DE once in a while.

Yeah, the rules for Scourges suggest that cover is probably a 'to hit' modifer.

The haywire rule might just be missing because there are (probably) no vehicles in Shadow War, so it's not applicable.
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Thu Mar 30 2017, 17:14

Why do the special operatives have no points value.
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Thu Mar 30 2017, 19:18

@krayd wrote:

For example, the haywire blaster is S4 with a -2 armor save. That's a -3 armor save total, so marines would only save on a 6+ vs that.

Ok, you lost me. How does a weapon with a -2 armour save end up being -3 armour save total?

Also, if what the count said is accurate and they roll their saves on 2d6, these penalties to armour save aren't nearly as good as they sound.
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Thu Mar 30 2017, 19:22

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
@krayd wrote:

For example, the haywire blaster is S4 with a -2 armor save. That's a -3 armor save total, so marines would only save on a 6+ vs that.

Ok, you lost me. How does a weapon with a -2 armour save end up being -3 armour save total?

Also, if what the count said is accurate and they roll their saves on 2d6, these penalties to armour save aren't nearly as good as they sound.

According to leaked main rules sheets (check faeit 212), it works like Rogue Trader/2nd ed, where you would have an armor mod based on strength, plus the additional armor mod of the weapon. S4 is a -1. Plus you have the -2 from the weapon, which makes it  a -3.

As far as I can tell, only terminator armor rolls 2D6 for a save. Just like Rogue Trader/2nd Ed. I can't recall where I saw the leaked armor profiles, but they're up somewhere too.

edit: The armor quick reference sheets are up on BoLS:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/03/40k-shadow-war-armageddon-rules-confirmed.html

Also, after doing some google-fu on 2nd edition rules, I may be wrong about Strength mods and weapon mods stacking. Strength mods might only apply if the weapon doesn't already have a built-in armor mod. Still, that would leave a marine with a 5+ save. Still a buff for the haywire blaster. However, if that is the case, then termies are going to be really hard to take out, even with dark lances and blasters, as they would have a 7+ save on 2D6, plus a 5+ invul. Assuming that lances are meant to approximate their current effectiveness, then the bonus would need to be able to stack (-5 for S8, -4 for weapon, for a total -9). Though, another possibility would be that armor saves are ignored completely once modifers pass a certain threshhold (I found a Necromunda rulebook that had this passage "It is not possible to effect a save if the score required is more than 6" - if that is applied to the current game, and I'm interpreting it correctly, then it would mean that, 2D6 or no, you wouldn't get an armor save if modifiers took your armor save past a 6+, which would allow lascannons and lances to penetrate termie armor automatically and force an invul save)
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 02:50

OK... showing my age here...

I started playing in rogue trader and remember the 2nd ed books coming out - hell I still have my Eldar codex from that release (its the second ever codex!)

Armour save mods DID NOT stack - so you used the weapon modifier alone. It only mattered what your S modifier was if you were using it solo (like a generic combat weapon)

And while you are correct that once you passed the -5 modifier (essentially negating a 2+ save) then no save was allowed, terminators rolled it on 2d6 and had an exception to the reference to the save reduced past 6+ so it was completely possible to roll against a lascannon at -6 by rolling a 9+ on 2d6.

That said, terminators generally didn't have a ++ save back then. This 2d6 save was meant to reflect the extreme toughness of the armour combined with the forcefield generator

Most of these rules are literally a copy past from 2nd ed/Necromunda with a few notable exceptions. Combat weapons for example. The Power Sword used to be S5, -3 save regardless of who used it. Now its +1S instead of flat S5

This feels largely like a hybrid of 2nd/7th

I am assuming the ammo rolls will not carry over to 40k if these rules are going to be used

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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 04:22

@Massaen wrote:
OK... showing my age here...

I started playing in rogue trader and remember the 2nd ed books coming out - hell I still have my Eldar codex from that release (its the second ever codex!)

Armour save mods DID NOT stack - so you used the weapon modifier alone. It only mattered what your S modifier was if you were using it solo (like a generic combat weapon)

And while you are correct that once you passed the -5 modifier (essentially negating a 2+ save) then no save was allowed, terminators rolled it on 2d6 and had an exception to the reference to the save reduced past 6+ so it was completely possible to roll against a lascannon at -6 by rolling a 9+ on 2d6.

Well, if this is what they're going with, I hope that there are additional rules for weapons like heat lances, dark lances, and blasters - otherwise, they seem a bit underpowered vs. terminators. Either that, or termies will require a *massive* point cost increase.
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 04:46

Well, scans of the Eldar kill team rules leaked here:
http://www.lavozdehorus.com/reglas-eldar-shadow-war-armageddon/

I'm a little concerned about how the craftworlders (again) seem a bit overpowered, compared to dark eldar.

All shuriken weapons appear to have sustained fire dice. (S4, -1 armor mod)

bright lances are actually *better* than dark lances (-5 armor mod vs. DL -4)

Wyches do have a better move stat than guardians/dire avengers, at least (6" vs. 5")
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 05:00

If most weapons are going to be similar to their previous appearances in Necromunda, we seem pretty respectable. I'm cautiously optimistic.
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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 06:43

You know, I feel like poison is more of a hindrance in a game that will almost exclusively feature basic troops. Tough 4 will be rare and tough 5 almost non existent and yet it looks like they are balancing dark eldar with this weird belief that poison is super strong.

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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 06:47

You guys know this is an offshoot game right? Necromunda always had those kinds of rules from what I was told. Who says this will be what 8th is like?

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PostSubject: Re: leaked Dark Eldar rules for Shadow War: Armageddon   Fri Mar 31 2017, 07:26

Looking at the Eldar rules I really have to think ... are they s§!$$!"g us?

Bright Lance: Modifier of -5, Ammo Roll 5+
Dark Lance: Modifier of -4, Ammo Roll 6+

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