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 Multiple units hit by blast causing Soulburst

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Anarchistscourge
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PostSubject: Multiple units hit by blast causing Soulburst   Fri Mar 24 2017, 12:54

Hi All,

A bit of a strange one. So we have 2 units (lets say 2 groups of 5 kabalites), they are next to each other and then 1 unit is targeted by a blast. The blast scatters and actually covers the whole first unit and part of the second. The opponent manages to kill all of the first unit (triggering SFD). The second unit soulbursts and shoots.
The question is does the second unit shoot at full numbers, before the wounds from the blast are allocated, or are the wounds allocated and then they make there soulburst after taking casualties?

The SFD rules state "The unit can IMMEDIATLEY shoot (or run or turbo-boost) as if it were your shooting phase"

I'm assuming that using soulburst to move so im not covered by the blast wouldn't work, as hits are allocated to all units before the wounds go through to trigger the soulburst.

Thanks in advance for any help
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple units hit by blast causing Soulburst   Fri Mar 24 2017, 12:59

The To Wound rolls against both units would in theory happen at the same time, just seperately because its two units. So those would resolve before the Soulburst action can be used.
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple units hit by blast causing Soulburst   Fri Mar 24 2017, 19:30

I don't agree with @Squimaster.
The Soulburst action happens immediately after a unit dies, so since the opposing player can choose which units resolves the wounds first it is up to him to be careful with the priority.
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Anarchistscourge
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple units hit by blast causing Soulburst   Fri Mar 24 2017, 19:57

See I was of the same opinion. But I can imagine if they wanted it like that they would do something similar in the combat phase. However they explicitly state you finish the initiative step so I would assume as you started allocating the wounds you would continue then soulburat

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Dalamar
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple units hit by blast causing Soulburst   Fri Mar 24 2017, 20:02

from the Gathering Storm 2 FAQ

Q: What happens with a multi-unit attack, such as a
nova power, that triggers Strength from Death before
completely resolving?
A: In the case of nova powers, templates or blasts,
resolve that attack completely before taking any
Soulburst actions.
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Anarchistscourge
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple units hit by blast causing Soulburst   Fri Mar 24 2017, 20:03

Thanks for that @dalamar. Read the faq before posting. Must of missed it

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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple units hit by blast causing Soulburst   Fri Mar 24 2017, 20:04

Fair enough.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple units hit by blast causing Soulburst   Sat Mar 25 2017, 05:56

Not to be confused with single units that fire multiple weapons. This basically just says you fully resolve the 1 weapon that you started resolving. There is no reason to think it applies to completing multiple weapons. So if an opponent has a unit with 1 lascannon and 9 bolters, and he chooses to resolve the lascannon first, which instakills an independent character, the ensuing soulburst could arguably be taken before the 9 bolters get to fire.

I'm not saying this argument is right or wrong. Just playing devil's advocate.

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Anarchistscourge
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple units hit by blast causing Soulburst   Sat Mar 25 2017, 10:31

That's the way I see it too

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple units hit by blast causing Soulburst   Sun Mar 26 2017, 10:48

Hmm. I can definitely see it both ways, but "resolve the shooting" just makes more sense to me. May throw it at the Facebook page in the vvague hope that someone goes at it.
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Anarchistscourge
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple units hit by blast causing Soulburst   Sun Mar 26 2017, 11:00

It would make sense to resolve all shooting. In @betraytheworld example. You use Soulburst after the lascannon shot but before the bolters, what happens if you use Soulburst to shoot that squad? Your then potentially lessening their bolter shots
To keep friends I'll probably play it that you complete all shooting. Not that I will have many friends after playing ynnari anyway...

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple units hit by blast causing Soulburst   Sun Mar 26 2017, 22:20

I'm in agreement with BTW, imagine we are shooting medusae and sslyth at someone. Same unit firing two weapons. If we fire the sslyth first then the following templates will hit less models. It isn't as extreme an example but it clearly shows that "firing one weapon changes the state of the attack in between resolving two different weapons" is not a mechanic that doesn't or is not intended to, exist.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Multiple units hit by blast causing Soulburst   Sun Mar 26 2017, 23:12

BtW wrote:
I'm not saying this argument is right or wrong. Just playing devil's advocate.

Okay. I'm willing to say it's right. Immediately means immediately, and while against Deathstars there are going to be a lot of 'immediately's, it would be erroneous to wait until the completion of any non-singular action to do so. Resolving an existing wound pool is very different from a secondary action that generates a new wound pool. If you wait until after the bolters shoot in betrays example I would absolutely argue that you can no longer take your soulburst for the IC dieing. It is no longer immediately after.

The above FAQ even lends credence to this stance, though tangentially, because it explicitly tells us to resolve that attack, meaning specifically that one attack not that units set of attacks.

At the end of the day I'm going to sit on the word immediately and not budge. Each shooting attack is it's own action, and while all are preceded by the nominate a unit to shoot step that doesn't necessitate that the macro unit of a unit to fire is a singular action. It is a set of actions and immediately absolutely interrupts sets of actions but does not break singular actions as seen above.
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