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PsychicHobo
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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Sat Mar 18 2017, 22:22

I think that's the best way to play the Yncarne: as a punishment for killing that unit your opponent really needs to kill. A no-win situation, as TeenageAngst says.

Plus, the Yncarne itself should never charge anything it will kill in one turn. Basic 40k logic of course for any CC unit, but in this instance it's because you want to be warping in your opponent's shooting phase, so your opponent won't be able to send any CC units in that are capable of killing. It does depend upon how likely your opponent is to kill something in that phase, but at the same time Ynnari lists tend to be built to embrace death...

It's going to be very difficult to get a grasp of though, and I'm by no means a particularly great player. But just the ability to have that much unpredictability on where it's going will have an impact on the opponent. Oh well, hopefully someone who plays against better lists than I will report!
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mattblowers
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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Sun Mar 19 2017, 01:38

@PsychicHobo wrote:
I think that's the best way to play the Yncarne: as a punishment for killing that unit your opponent really needs to kill. A no-win situation

That's it exactly.

I lost horribly to a Magnus list today. It was awful. Summoned pinks are a horrible thing to behold. That said, the Yanari are still a good list and have good games. My list loses horribly to a kill points mission, but anything else I really think they can rock it hard. Coming from Tyranids it's like  a breath of fresh air. Time will tell.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Sun Mar 19 2017, 02:40

Don't take me saying the Yncarne is bad to be saying Ynnari are bad. GW gave us an awesome new army, with awesome army rules, led by 3 awesome models with bad rules/costing.

The Ynnari are good. I'm only saying that the Yncarne is bad. 275 points for what it does, in my opinion, is simply not worth it. A lot of people are talking about these pipe dreams of coming in on the enemy turn safe and sound, but they aren't considering that you have to come in towards the END of their turn, after all the dangerous shooting stuff has shot, which is an unlikely time for things to start dying off. More likely, YOU will be the one put to a decision where you have to weigh whether or not to bring the Yncarne in, in an unsafe area with only 25-50% of your opponent's shooting completed.

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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Sun Mar 19 2017, 20:59

With a little planning and if your units usually hug cover anyway its not hard to drop the yncarne safely behind cover on your opponents turn.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Sun Mar 19 2017, 23:16

Got in my first game with him today against my buddy's Dark Eldar. This guy is the person who taught me how to play Warhammer 40k and he's been a Dark Eldar player for years. Very good player, knows how to position to get things off and such. He had Wyches with a Succubus, 2 Talos, a Chronos, Warriors in Raiders with splinter racks, disintegrator ravager, grotesques with haemonculus, and a 6 man squad of reavers. I had a grotesquerie, a succubus, a razorwing, 2 warriors with blaster in venoms, 2 raiders with dark lances for my grots, a chronos, the Yncarne, and of course 3 units of Mandrakes.

It was escalation maelstrom and he took first turn. I infiltrated my mandrakes onto objectives and he spent the first turn shooting out a grot boat and forcing some mandrakes to run. He charged my infiltrated mandrakes with his Reavers and since they had no save, they died, so my Yncarne plopped down right next to them.

My first turn my Yncarne and the grotesques get into combat with the reavers and wipe them out. Then we had a grot battle between his unit and mine. I buffed my unit with the Yncarne's special ability that gave them +1WS and +1 initiative which turned the tide, but I allowed my Haemonculus to die to a ID attack from an enemy grotesque, allowing me to claim 3 victory points for my warlord trait. The mandrakes regrouped and fell into cover.

Turn 2 he wised up and fired all his poison at my Yncarne, whittling it down to 1 wound. His wyches jumped out and charged it, but he decided to finish combat with my grotesques first. They were still buffed, but worse, they now had rampage. This allowed my Aberration to murder his Haemonculus, which was a destroyed unit, so my Yncarne popped out of combat with the wyches, narrowly avoiding a painful death via Agonizers. This left him visibly upset as he realized by not finishing the darned thing off first he done goofed.

My turn 2 my Razorwing came on and murdered all the wyches with missiles. The Yncarne was close enough to recover all 4 wounds because I killed enough models that I could do that. It killed the Chronos in close combat, my grotesques killed a raider and the succubus, and my other grotesques finished their combat.

He managed to whittle the Yncarne down to 1 wound again on his turn, but by the end of my turn 4 I had him back to full strength and pretty much tabled him.

The Yncarne played exactly like I expected it would. I baited with an easy T1 charge with the mandrakes, summoned the unit, slaughtered everything in its wake, and popped it out of combats it didn't want to be in. Had I had my wits about me I would have charged things with soulburst when it won those combats to hide it from all the poison shooting but I am still learning this unit after all, that's an improvement for next time.

But the REAL MVPs here are the MANDRAKES. THEY summoned the Yncarne in the first place with their lack of a save, THEY held objectives in the back all game while my army pushed forward, and THEY held the line with a 2+ cover save. OP as hell I'm telling you.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Mon Mar 20 2017, 01:58

Ok, I only read half your post, FYI. But here's the gist of what I got:

Quote :
I played against my friend using the Yncarne, and my friend is really, really good. He was using wyches with a succubus. Shocked

What? No, seriously, he's good though. So then, he gets to go first, and does the only possible thing that would summon the Yncarne in a way that it would be safe from his shooting and able to assault him in his turn. Shocked

What? Dude, I'm serious, he's really good. The Yncarne and mandrakes are just AMAZING.

If anyone is buying this, I got some oceanfront property in arizona you might like. Super good deal. Just need you to western union me a down payment to hold it in escrow so I can keep it from being sold before we close with you. PM me for details.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Mon Mar 20 2017, 02:47

He picked Wyches because their 4++ save in combat was a good tarpit against a fleshbane AP2 monster. His plan was to tie the Yncarne up all game and then bonk it with AP3 poison. And it would of worked had he done his combats in another order, or had I not ID'd his Haemonculus.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Mon Mar 20 2017, 06:15

Wyches were a bad idea to begin with for a multitude of reasons. He triggered the Yncarne's teleport into the game at the END of your turn/assault phase, right next to weak stuff that doesn't want to get charged. Then after you murderfaced him with it, he shot it, but then didn't bother finishing it off first before triggering another soulburst.

This guy obviously didn't understand the rules yet, or he's bad, which is my entire point. The Yncarne requires your opponent to do stupid things. It can punish them severely when they do, but come on. Both those mistakes he made were no brainers for anyone who knows the rules.

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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Mon Mar 20 2017, 06:24

Thanks for the batrep @TeenageAngst I'd like to try your way of baiting for the next time.

And mandrake!! That's actually one of the worst parts for the new codex(-like-campaign-book) for me. It's understandable fluffwise, but still I'd be so glad if GW allowed these awesome models for the reborn detachment Sad

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Mon Mar 20 2017, 06:25

He didn't trigger any soulbursts, at least none that I activated because *I* forgot about that ability for most of the game. What he triggered was it's kill-a-thing redeployment, and even that he didn't expect to proc because he didn't think IC's counted.

Anyway, like I've said many times before, if I had a unit that only works when my opponent is an idiot I'd bring it in every list. Here it is.

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BizarreShowbiz
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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Mon Mar 20 2017, 12:12

Ive had huge success playing the Yncarne so far in conjuntion with harlequins using the kamikaze tactic and MSU reaver jetbikes.

HQ
Llhamaean
-Venom
Troops
Troupe. x4 players, troupemaster. x5 Caresses
-Starweaver
Troupe. x4 players, troupemaster. x5 Caresses
-Starweaver
FA
x3 Reavers, CC
x3 Reavers, CC
x3 Reavers, CC
LW
Yncarne

HQ
Llhamaean
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Troops
Troupe. x4 players, troupemaster. x5 Caresses
-Starweaver
Troupe. x4 players, troupemaster. x5 Caresses
-Starweaver
FA
x3 Reavers, CC
x3 Reavers, CC
x3 Reavers, CC

Its one of those things that I cant quite explain. This army is too fragile, it shouldnt work, but I somehow always table (or come near to tabling) my opponent without receiving heavy casualities. I only lost once with this list and it was by noob mistakes on my part.

The army revolves around the Yncarne. I roll on the Ynnari WL table looking for the one that lets me choose psychic powers, if I get it I always go Word of the Phoenix (3) and Freed Souls (5) , that have great synergy with harlequins and Reavers and then either Ynnead's Gaze/Hammerhand (vs IKs), Sanctuary (Marines), Vortex of Doom (pretty much everyone else), If not I just roll on the Ynnari table to get 3, 5 or both.

I use the Yncarne as a buff bubble for my Harlequins and Reavers. It not only gives them Fearless (yeah, I know they already are stubborn, but my luck with ld tests is horrendous, so it is a blessing for me), but Feel No Pain too, wich make Harlequins deceivingly durable if in cover, also if you are smart with your movements you get a lot of free gone to ground actions if you step in and out of the bubble range.

Unavoidable Death is an awesome rule that have literally won games for me. Not being able to charge in the turn you use it has had no impact whatsoever, as I use it in the enemy's turn and charge in mine or viceversa using a soulburst.

In my oppinion post-FAQ assault units get the best out of the Strenght from Death rule, as they not only use your own units death to trigger soulburst, but also the enemys. My last game was agains a gladius strike force and by the end of my turn 2 I had almost tabled him, as I have already dealt 3 assault phases worth of hurt (his turn 1 soulbursts, my turn 2 assaults and soulbursts derived of it). Think that if you position correctly and mix units from both detachments, every time something dies triggers 3 different soulbursts.

Surprisingly in all the games I've played since the supplement dropped, the Yncarne has only died twice. With this list I've posted he's yet to die and almost always end up with full wounds. his contribution is almost all about bubble buffs and handing out soulburst via psychic powers, but when he needs to smack someone around he does. His WS9 is pretty good also, almost everything hits him on 5+

All in all I think its a really nice addition to my lists. Is it objectively speaking better than a WK? Hell no. Is this list good on paper? Hell no. Are my opponents retarded? I really doubt so, as they ranked really high or even won national tournaments not so long ago.

I guess it fits my playstyle really well or something.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Mon Mar 20 2017, 13:15

See, if you know how to use it the thing is bananas. Also keep in mind I was running a single DE DAD so I didn't even get soulburst on anything except my Yncarne. This guy is coming with me to tournaments I'm thinking. He might just be the magic sauce I need to make my list work.

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mattblowers
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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Mon Mar 20 2017, 13:39

@BizarreShowbiz wrote:
Ive had huge success playing the Yncarne so far in conjuntion with harlequins using the kamikaze tactic and MSU reaver jetbikes.

HQ
Llhamaean
-Venom
Troops
Troupe. x4 players, troupemaster. x5 Caresses
-Starweaver
Troupe. x4 players, troupemaster. x5 Caresses
-Starweaver
FA
x3 Reavers, CC
x3 Reavers, CC
x3 Reavers, CC
LW
Yncarne

HQ
Llhamaean
-Venom
Troops
Troupe. x4 players, troupemaster. x5 Caresses
-Starweaver
Troupe. x4 players, troupemaster. x5 Caresses
-Starweaver
FA
x3 Reavers, CC
x3 Reavers, CC
x3 Reavers, CC

Its one of those things that I cant quite explain. This army is too fragile, it shouldnt work, but I somehow always table (or come near to tabling) my opponent without receiving heavy casualities. I only lost once with this list and it was by noob mistakes on my part.

The army revolves around the Yncarne. I roll on the Ynnari WL table looking for the one that lets me choose psychic powers, if I get it I always go Word of the Phoenix (3) and Freed Souls (5) , that have great synergy with harlequins and Reavers and then either Ynnead's Gaze/Hammerhand (vs IKs), Sanctuary (Marines), Vortex of Doom (pretty much everyone else), If not I just roll on the Ynnari table to get 3, 5 or both.

I use the Yncarne as a buff bubble for my Harlequins and Reavers. It not only gives them Fearless (yeah, I know they already are stubborn, but my luck with ld tests is horrendous, so it is a blessing for me), but Feel No Pain too, wich make Harlequins deceivingly durable if in cover, also if you are smart with your movements you get a lot of free gone to ground actions if you step in and out of the bubble range.

Unavoidable Death is an awesome rule that have literally won games for me. Not being able to charge in the turn you use it has had no impact whatsoever, as I use it in the enemy's turn and charge in mine or viceversa using a soulburst.

In my oppinion post-FAQ assault units get the best out of the Strenght from Death rule, as they not only use your own units death to trigger soulburst, but also the enemys. My last game was agains a gladius strike force and by the end of my turn 2 I had almost tabled him, as I have already dealt 3 assault phases worth of hurt (his turn 1 soulbursts, my turn 2 assaults and soulbursts derived of it). Think that if you position correctly and mix units from both detachments, every time something dies triggers 3 different soulbursts.

Surprisingly in all the games I've played since the supplement dropped, the Yncarne has only died twice. With this list I've posted he's yet to die and almost always end up with full wounds. his contribution is almost all about bubble buffs and handing out soulburst via psychic powers, but when he needs to smack someone around he does. His WS9 is pretty good also, almost everything hits him on 5+

All in all I think its a really nice addition to my lists. Is it objectively speaking better than a WK? Hell no. Is this list good on paper? Hell no. Are my opponents retarded? I really doubt so, as they ranked really high or even won national tournaments not so long ago.

I guess it fits my playstyle really well or something.

Glad to see you are having luck with Harlequins with the army. I have not. I dropped all of them from my list as a sub-par choice. Not enough damage output for the cost. I find Yncarne to be really good as well. I run 6 units of Reavers (3x3 and 3x6) and 4 scatbike units. The rest of my army is the Eldar batteries. My problem with Harlies is the same as it was before: they can't deal with deathstars, Soulburst or not. Have you played against barkstar, Magnus, or gladisu yet?
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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Mon Mar 20 2017, 15:12

@mattblowers wrote:
Glad to see you are having luck with Harlequins with the army. I have not. I dropped all of them from my list as a sub-par choice. Not enough damage output for the cost. I find Yncarne to be really good as well. I run 6 units of Reavers (3x3 and 3x6) and 4 scatbike units. The rest of my army is the Eldar batteries. My problem with Harlies is the same as it was before: they can't deal with deathstars, Soulburst or not. Have you played against barkstar, Magnus, or gladisu yet?

sadly proficient deathstar players arent that common in my area, only one guy plays them to a high level and its Iron hands with 2+ FNP. I've found the Ynnari primaris is kinda okayish sniping the apothecary, as it is a profileless focused wytchfire (ignores invisibility) and its LOS is only 4+. But anyways my modus operandi against them is usually hunting the satellite units, using superior mobility and force it to split if he wants to score. I only headbutt them if theyre already maimed and I know I will win by brute force.

I play plenty against gladius or similars, but havent seen Magnus in action yet. Really looking forward to it tho, Ill let you know how it goes.

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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Mon Mar 20 2017, 15:31

@BizarreShowbiz wrote:
sadly proficient deathstar players arent that common in my area, only one guy plays them to a high level and its Iron hands with 2+ FNP. I've found the Ynnari primaris is kinda okayish sniping the apothecary, as it is a profileless focused wytchfire (ignores invisibility) and its LOS is only 4+.

Unless you guys play with a particular FAQ or something, I don't think you can use Spirit Hook on an Invisible target as "any shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill cannot be ‘fired’ as a Snap Shot".

Also, the Apothecary will still get his FNP if his Lo,S! fails so it seems like a bit of a long shot.

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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Mon Mar 20 2017, 16:24

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Unless you guys play with a particular FAQ or something, I don't think you can use Spirit Hook on an Invisible target as "any shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill cannot be ‘fired’ as a Snap Shot".

Also, the Apothecary will still get his FNP if his Lo,S! fails so it seems like a bit of a long shot.

More like the other way around, unless you play with a particular FAQ, the general FAQ states twice in regard of the use of wytchfire powers without a profile that you simply follow the instructions written for that power instead. No need to roll to hit hence invisibility has no effect on them. Same against FMCs.



Yes, he still has his FNP, but it bypasses both the tanker, invisibility and his armor. Its something he can fail. ¿Does that make it a good primaris? no, but it has its uses.

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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Mon Mar 20 2017, 16:33

I appreciate what the FAQ says but that doesn't contradict the actual rulebook.

Quote :
In addition, any shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill cannot be ‘fired’ as a Snap Shot

Quote :
Witchfire powers are shooting attacks

Quote :
Some witchfire powers can pick out models in an enemy unit – these are called focussed
witchfire powers. They follow all the normal rules for witchfire...

Quote :
Spirit Hook is a focussed witchfire power

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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Mon Mar 20 2017, 16:39

@BizarreShowBiz: Neither of those FAQ results override the rule that says an invisible unit may not be targeted by any shooting attack that doesn't use ballistic skill. Both those FAQ questions simply confirm that the powers don't, in fact, use any ballistic skill.

Furthermore, I see a lot of people talking about word of the phoenix as a great power, and I'm sure there are many cases where a single soulburst could be game-changing. I do, however, want to point out that you DO NOT get your extra soulburst actions from the reborn warhost detachments when you use word of the phoenix. The detachment special rule specifies that it only works on a soulburst triggered by the death of a unit, which would preclude "artificial" soulbursts derived from other sources from triggering it. So, if people were using it where it could trigger multiple(2-4) soulbursts by using multiple detachments special rule, then it will actually only be about 25-33% as effective as they thought it would be. That might change some minds on the effectiveness of not only that power, but also the Yncarne who wields it.

Against good players who know the rules, the Yncarne should be a flop almost every time. That said, I do concede that it's hard for people to keep up with all the new rules, and so you should be able to surprise plenty of people in local metas. I don't expect that to fly at high level competitive tournaments though, which is all I generally care to discuss. So if I ever say something is good or bad, I am talking about it in relation to high level competitive players playing in a high level competitive setting.

EDIT: The count beat me to the post. I guess that's what happens when you AFK and come back in the middle of writing a post. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Mon Mar 20 2017, 20:22

@Teenageangst can you summoning the Yncarne with mandrakes? I didn't think they were Ynnari.

Edit: Nevermind checked out his rules again. Friend or foe.
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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Tue Mar 21 2017, 15:03

Quote :
and popped it out of combats it didn't want to be in.

Can you do that? Is there hit'n'run as soulburst action?

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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Tue Mar 21 2017, 15:24

It's ability to redeploy allows it to go where it wants whenever something dies regardless of what it's doing.

Also @BizarreShowbiz the mods have informed me that "retarded" is not the preferred nomenclature when referring to opponents. Exceptional individuals, please.

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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Tue Mar 21 2017, 17:41

@TeenageAngst wrote:
And my position is that you're a poopyhead.

I'm gonna WIN de-la-war, and then I'm gonna win NOVA, and then I'm gonna stop puking in this trash bag.

And I'm gonna be hokage one day!
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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Tue Mar 21 2017, 20:56

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:

Furthermore, I see a lot of people talking about word of the phoenix as a great power, and I'm sure there are many cases where a single soulburst could be game-changing. I do, however, want to point out that you DO NOT get your extra soulburst actions from the reborn warhost detachments when you use word of the phoenix. The detachment special rule specifies that it only works on a soulburst triggered by the death of a unit, which would preclude "artificial" soulbursts derived from other sources from triggering it. So, if people were using it where it could trigger multiple(2-4) soulbursts by using multiple detachments special rule, then it will actually only be about 25-33% as effective as they thought it would be. That might change some minds on the effectiveness of not only that power, but also the Yncarne who wields it.

Have ppl been playing the phoenix as generating additional soulbursts?

I haven't and i still think phoenix (and the yncarne) are great.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As others have alluded to the yncarne is excellent with mass reavers.

The buff bubble alone is bonkers good. Cool
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PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Wed Mar 22 2017, 15:23

I'm not sure if they have or not. I put that out there because it's a fact, the book is new(so people MAY be using it that way), and the difference between getting 3-4 soulbursts out of a power and only getting 1 is, I'd think, enough to make people change their mind about it being good if they were originally basing their opinion on generating multiple soulbursts using word of the pheonix in conjunction with the detachment special rule.

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Jimsolo
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Join date : 2013-10-31
Location : Illinois

PostSubject: Re: The Yncarne's potential   Wed Mar 22 2017, 20:50

Word of the Phoenix does work with the formation with the United in Life/United in Death rules though, I believe.
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