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Anarchistscourge
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PostSubject: 2000pt Ynnari   Wed Mar 15 2017, 13:49

So trying to be competitive with the Ynnari while keep the playstyle i like (fast bikes).
Flyers shouldn't be an issue as they don't come up often in my meta.
Would love some help / advice on whether this is competitive or not (have not played any eldar much at all, but skulked around TDC for a while)

++ Y Reborn Warhost 1 (1107pts) ++

+ HQ (235pts) +
········(DE) Archon (135pts) [Close Combat Weapon, Shadow Field, Splinter Pistol, Webway Portal]
········(E) Autarch (100pts) [Banshee Mask, Laser Lance, Shuriken Pistol, Skyrunner Jetbike]

+ Elites (210pts) +
········(E) Wraithguard (210pts) [D-Scythe, 5x Wraithguard]

+ Troops (360pts) +
3x
········ (DE) Kabalite Warriors (120pts) [4x Kabalite Warrior]
············(DE) Venom [Splinter Cannon]
············Kabalite Warrior w/ Special Weapon [Blaster]

+ Fast Attack (302pts) +
········(DE) Reavers (156pts) [2x Cluster Caltrops, 3x Reaver]
············Arena Champion [Close Combat Weapon]
············Reaver w/ Special Weapon [2x Blaster]
2x
········(DE) Reavers (73pts) [Cluster Caltrops, 2x Reaver]
············Reaver w/ Special Weapon [Blaster]

++ Y Reborn Warhost 2 (892pts) ++

+ HQ (105pts) +
········(E) Farseer (105pts) [Singing Spear, Skyrunner Jetbike]      (THIS MAY BE WRONG!)

+ Troops (272pts) +
2x
········(E) Windriders (136pts)
············Windrider [3x Scatter Laser]
············Windrider Warlock [Singing Spear, Twin-Linked Shuriken Catapult]

+ Fast Attack (240pts) +
2x
········(DE) Scourges (120pts) [Scourge]
············Scourge w/ Heavy or Special Weapon [4x Haywire Blaster]

+ Lord of War (275pts) +
········(Y) The Yncarne, Avatar of Ynnead (275pts)

What do we think? Thanks in advance
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Wed Mar 15 2017, 22:59

You already said you like fast bikes. Just bring Ynnead's Net over and over.

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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Wed Mar 15 2017, 23:37

Anarchistscourge wrote:
So trying to be competitive with the Ynnari while keep the playstyle i like (fast bikes).

Somehow I don't think you'll have much trouble there...

If you're willing to dip into Allies you might find some better units than Warriors for your troops - or at least trim them down a bit if you're only taking them for the Venoms.

Is the Archon dropping down with the Wraithguard? They might become a bit of a target - remember you can't Soulburst charge after a Deep Strike.

Ynnead's net, as Teenageangst mentioned, would be something you'd like to look into. It'd require the Harlequin book though so if you don't have that that's understandable.

Remember how the Yncarne's teleportation works - you really want to shift them during your opponent's phase to a spot where they're less likely to take any additional damage, then go after something vulnerable in your turn. And ALWAYS be on the lookout to teleport and continuously go for weak spots in your opponent's army.


Finally, simple bonus - move a few units over to the second Warhost, as you want the Double Soulburst benefit from having 7 units minimum in the formation. It's checked at the start of the game.
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Wed Mar 15 2017, 23:46

Wouldn't a seer council be more useful than a 2nd warhost detachment?
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Thu Mar 16 2017, 16:16

Just wondering why a seer council over 2nd detachment?

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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Fri Mar 17 2017, 01:42

Anarchistscourge wrote:
Just wondering why a seer council over 2nd detachment?

Psychic phase domination.
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Sun Mar 19 2017, 06:17

Ynnari aren't about psychic phase domination, that's not how they play.

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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Sun Mar 19 2017, 19:54

Why would you say that? 1) The book just came out so you couldn't possibly know that. 2) especially considering Ynnari have access to everything the psychic domination race (CWE) has nothing would stop them from being a psycher dominant army. 3) Two of their new characters are great (though not the best) psychers 4) They can use freakshow easier then ever before. sooooo....
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Mon Mar 20 2017, 11:36

Yvrainne is not great by any stretch of the imagination.

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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Mon Mar 20 2017, 19:22

tibersky wrote:
Why would you say that? 1) The book just came out so you couldn't possibly know that. 2) especially considering Ynnari have access to everything the psychic domination race (CWE) has nothing would stop them from being a psycher dominant army. 3) Two of their new characters are great (though not the best) psychers 4) They can use freakshow easier then ever before. sooooo....

Because, what is the central rule of Ynnari? Additional shooting, movement, and charges. So, since you get to put out 2-3 extra rounds of shooting (depending on when you kill or get killed) and can get extra movements or shots to make that shooting or assault phase more effective, honestly I can't see why you would be focusing on optimizing that phase. We get no benefits to it, and as such we should focus on high mobility and high shooting damage output.

That's my analysis of why Ynnari should not focus on psychic phase dominance. They should be focusing on getting off 1-2 utility powers, imo. (Namely shadowseers with veil of tears or powers that will grant rerolls on attacks.)

As for yvraine being great, i have yet to use her or even buy her (I really don't want to drop $75 on that set when I can use that money for food and keeping a roof over my head), so I cannot really speak to her utility, but I do plan to run my Ynnari without named characters (except maybe Eldrad in fun games).
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Mon Mar 20 2017, 23:55

Still trying to work out Vyraine. She might be useful in a challenge (Invul, Eternal Warrior, AP3, Instant Death, decent statline) but I'm not sure on her points. More psychic dice is nice, but overall she's one of those where you kind of won't suffer for using her but you won't gain much either.
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Tue Mar 21 2017, 11:34

@Srota - How would you plan on using Eldrad? I thought about using him before (very fluffy) but Ynnari does very well with fast moving MSU, Eldrad is not fast and you would need to stick him in a unit for a bit of bubble wrap. What unit would you use?

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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Tue Mar 21 2017, 15:14

@Anarchistscourge: Gate. if you can get it, make him warlord and get him the trait where you get to pick the psychic powers. I'm using him in a planetary empires campaign where you get to pick a warlord trait for one of your three warlords, so I gave him that ability. Eldrad with Gate is super nice, imo. Makes up for the lack of mobility on eldrad, plus with the helm, he can handle the issue of perils coming more easily from Sanctic.
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Tue Mar 21 2017, 15:26

Fair enough. But in a meta with mass tau shooting, huge blobs of ork boys and fast as hell space pups, I can't imagine he would last long without a fairy expensive foot slogging unit. Also unless you can pick the WT (we play standard maelstrom missions) then I'm sure it can be a bit hit and miss with powers. How would you deal with that lot (I ask because I've played against Eldar loads but not played them myself and have no experience except from theorycrafting)

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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Tue Mar 21 2017, 15:27

The only good thing about Yvraine is her feet.

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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Tue Mar 21 2017, 17:06

Anarchistscourge wrote:
Fair enough. But in a meta with mass tau shooting, huge blobs of ork boys and fast as hell space pups, I can't imagine he would last long without a fairy expensive foot slogging unit. Also unless you can pick the WT (we play standard maelstrom missions) then I'm sure it can be a bit hit and miss with powers. How would you deal with that lot (I ask because I've played against Eldar loads but not played them myself and have no experience except from theorycrafting)

In regards to Orks, what I have found works well is putting Eldrad out and surrounding him with a Dire Avenger Shrine. Its a formation that imo can really pull its weight, since you will have WS 5 Dire Avengers, and for when you need something well and truly dead, you can have them fire at assault 3 for 1 shooting phase, plus they get buffs to morale which is nice.

Sadly we have a rather real lack of tau players in my local meta, as I am basically the only one and I am selling mine to pay for a professionally painted death company army.

As for Space Puppies, just focus on shooting, if they get in close they'll wipe units fairly well, but I suspect that tying them up with units like a Harlequins troupe or solitaire might work well in allowing you to reposition to take advantage of the inevitable soulburst that comes when wulven chew through them.
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Tue Mar 21 2017, 17:33

Very good points, and never thought about the avenger shrine. Isn't it +1 to BS skill not WS?

Harlequins i find too expensive to run and be effective, but i can imagine the avenger shrine with the extra shot and overwatch on BS 2 / counterattack would work really well. I will file this away for the future, as currently im looking at running a large MSU bike force and i dont see the avengers fitting in.

Also you say sadly you have no tau players other than yourself...I disagree on the sadly bit lol. Played my buddy last night with my Smurfs and guilliman. Nothing more annoying than both my tanks getting 1 shotted by hammerheads who have had a massive boost to BS due to ML spam. I just hate Tau.

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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Tue Mar 21 2017, 17:59

Anarchistscourge wrote:
Very good points, and never thought about the avenger shrine. Isn't it +1 to BS skill not WS?

Harlequins i find too expensive to run and be effective, but i can imagine the avenger shrine with the extra shot and overwatch on BS 2 / counterattack would work really well. I will file this away for the future, as currently im looking at running a large MSU bike force and i dont see the avengers fitting in.

Also you say sadly you have no tau players other than yourself...I disagree on the sadly bit lol. Played my buddy last night with my Smurfs and guilliman. Nothing more annoying than both my tanks getting 1 shotted by hammerheads who have had a massive boost to BS due to ML spam. I just hate Tau.

1. Yes, my bad.

2. Harlequins are surprisingly good now, put them in a transport and get it in close, then charge away, they're surprisingly more survivable than people give them credit for, 5++ is actually not that bad as a primary save.

3. Yes, but how can you prepare to face them when nobody plays them in your local meta?
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Tue Mar 21 2017, 19:39

Srota wrote:
tibersky wrote:
Why would you say that? 1) The book just came out so you couldn't possibly know that. 2) especially considering Ynnari have access to everything the psychic domination race (CWE) has nothing would stop them from being a psycher dominant army. 3) Two of their new characters are great (though not the best) psychers 4) They can use freakshow easier then ever before. sooooo....

Because, what is the central rule of Ynnari?  Additional shooting, movement, and charges.  So, since you get to put out 2-3 extra rounds of shooting (depending on when you kill or get killed) and can get extra movements or shots to make that shooting or assault phase more effective, honestly I can't see why you would be focusing on optimizing that phase.  We get no benefits to it, and as such we should focus on high mobility and high shooting damage output.

That's my analysis of why Ynnari should not focus on psychic phase dominance.  They should be focusing on getting off 1-2 utility powers, imo.  (Namely shadowseers with veil of tears or powers that will grant rerolls on attacks.)

As for yvraine being great, i have yet to use her or even buy her (I really don't want to drop $75 on that set when I can use that money for food and keeping a roof over my head), so I cannot really speak to her utility, but I do plan to run my Ynnari without named characters (except maybe Eldrad in fun games).

I have no idea about Yvraine but I just did a 3k point game with my nurgle force against Ynarri, and once again seer council single handedly win the game. They refused to die with forewarning and the failed save reroll power on them no matter how much I strafed them with heldrakes and burning brand princes... I just could not get them to fail a save. He then focused on BUFFING the shooting ynnari units so that when they got to shoot over and over they always had prescience and ignores cover (with singing spears) of course to just obliterate my DP's who had been doomed... and then spray shrieks each turn on my DG termicides just to rub in that I won't be getting linebreaker. Yeah pretty much an over the top formation.
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Wed Mar 22 2017, 17:25

So after taking into consideration the advice of @TeenageAngst and having a bit of a play around ive got 2 lists revised from my original.
The principal and strategy for both is pretty much the same, with the Farseer joining the 6 man reaver squad, and everything else doing what we know it does best. Psychic powers, i will be aiming for Fortune and then Word of the Phoenix and Ancestor's Grace on the revenant discipline

++ Y Reborn Warhost (2000pts) ++
+ HQ (240pts) +
········(DE) Archon (120pts) [Clone Field, Close Combat Weapon, Haywire Grenades, Splinter Pistol, Webway Portal]
········(E) Farseer (120pts) [Singing Spear, Skyrunner Jetbike]

+ Elites (210pts) +
········(E) Wraithguard (210pts) [D-Scythe, 5x Wraithguard]

+ Troops (346pts) +
········2x (DE) Kabalite Warriors (105pts) [5x Kabalite Warrior]
············(DE) Venom [Splinter Cannon]
········(E) Windriders (136pts)
············3x Windrider [Scatter Laser]
············Windrider Warlock [Singing Spear, Twin-Linked Shuriken Catapult]

+ Fast Attack (436pts) +
········(DE) Reavers (156pts) [2x Cluster Caltrops, 3x Reaver]
············Arena Champion [Close Combat Weapon]
············2x Reaver w/ Special Weapon [Blaster]

········(DE) Scourges (120pts) [Scourge]
············4x Scourge w/ Heavy or Special Weapon [Haywire Blaster]
········(E) Crimson Hunter (160pts) [Crimson Hunter Exarch, Two Bright Lances]

+ Formation (768pts) +
········2x Formation (Y): Ynnead's Net (384pts)
············(DE) Reavers [Cluster Caltrops, 2x Reaver]
················Reaver w/ Special Weapon [Blaster]
············(E) Warlock Conclave [Skyrunner Jetbike]
················Warlock [Singing Spear]
············(E) Windriders
················3x Windrider [Scatter Laser]
················Windrider Warlock [Singing Spear, Twin-Linked Shuriken Catapult]
············(H) Skyweavers
················2x Skyweaver [Shuriken Cannon, Zephyrglaive]

While in the second list i'm almost guaranteed to have all my reserves in turn 2, the beastmasters are there to hike up the board and be a nuisance, while hopefully being an easy kill to get a soulburst from.

2 Reborn Warhosts = 1999pts
++ Y Reborn Warhost (985pts) ++
+ HQ (100pts) +
········(E) Autarch (100pts) [Banshee Mask, Laser Lance, Shuriken Pistol, Skyrunner Jetbike]

+ Troops (210pts) +
········2x (DE) Kabalite Warriors (105pts) [5x Kabalite Warrior]
············(DE) Venom [Splinter Cannon]

+ Fast Attack (296pts) +
········(DE) Beastmasters (20pts) [Khymera]
············Beastmaster [Close Combat Weapon]
········(DE) Reavers (156pts) [2x Cluster Caltrops, 3x Reaver]
············Arena Champion [Close Combat Weapon]
············2x Reaver w/ Special Weapon [Blaster]
········(DE) Scourges (120pts) [Scourge]
············4x Scourge w/ Heavy or Special Weapon [Haywire Blaster]

········Formation (Y): Ynnead's Net (379pts)
············(DE) Reavers [Cluster Caltrops, 2x Reaver]
················Reaver w/ Special Weapon [Blaster]
············(E) Warlock Conclave [Skyrunner Jetbike]
················Warlock [Singing Spear]
············(E) Windriders
················3x Windrider [Scatter Laser]
················Windrider Warlock [Twin-Linked Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade]
············(H) Skyweavers
················2x Skyweaver [Shuriken Cannon, Zephyrglaive]


++ Y Reborn Warhost (1014pts) ++
+ HQ (120pts) +
········(E) Farseer (120pts) [Singing Spear, Skyrunner Jetbike]

+ Troops (210pts) +
········2x (DE) Kabalite Warriors (105pts) [5x Kabalite Warrior]
············(DE) Venom [Splinter Cannon]

+ Fast Attack (300pts) +
········(DE) Beastmasters (20pts) [Khymera]
············Beastmaster [Close Combat Weapon]

········(DE) Scourges (120pts) [Scourge]
············Scourge w/ Heavy or Special Weapon [Haywire Blaster]
············Scourge w/ Heavy or Special Weapon [Haywire Blaster]
············Scourge w/ Heavy or Special Weapon [Haywire Blaster]
············Scourge w/ Heavy or Special Weapon [Haywire Blaster]
········(E) Crimson Hunter (160pts) [Crimson Hunter Exarch, Two Bright Lances]

········Formation (Y): Ynnead's Net (384pts)
············(DE) Reavers [Cluster Caltrops, 2x Reaver]
················Reaver w/ Special Weapon [Blaster]
············(E) Warlock Conclave [Skyrunner Jetbike]
················Warlock [Singing Spear]
············(E) Windriders
················2xWindrider [Scatter Laser]
················Windrider Warlock [Singing Spear, Twin-Linked Shuriken Catapult]
············(H) Skyweavers
················2x Skyweaver [Shuriken Cannon, Zephyrglaive]

My only concern with the 1st list is the WWP Wraithguard and crimson hunter not coming on till turn 3 / 4 latest.
Please tell me what you think, what can be improved and which list you think is more competitive. Always open to advice / full list changes (just want to keep the MSU bike theme)
Thanks in advance

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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Wed Mar 22 2017, 18:01

Why are you bringing warriors still they are literally Hitler. Bring more Scatbikes.

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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Wed Mar 22 2017, 18:14

Because for 20 points more I get 2 units instead of 1 meaning more units that can be destroyed and more Soulburst. Granted I trade Str6 for poison but with nids in my meta poison is extremely useful

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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Wed Mar 22 2017, 18:47

Also because on a personal level I prefer dark Eldar and as much as I realise CWE are Inherently better I want to keep the force leaning towards DE

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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Wed Mar 22 2017, 21:28

This is why I hate giving Ynnari list advice. "I want my army to be good, just not too good . I only wanna kinda cheese it up." If you want a bike theme then bring lots of bikes. If you want DE then run DE. If you want power then run Ynnari Eldar. If you want some mix then run some mix. But without a clear goal and clear restrictions I'm gonna post the most obvious solutions one after another.

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PostSubject: Re: 2000pt Ynnari   Wed Mar 22 2017, 23:31

As I said before the reason for the kabs in venoms over scat bikes is that 3 T4 3+ save are very easy to take out. However with the kabs I get a Soulburst wheb the vehicle goes potentially positioning kabs in good place to chain Soukburst as 5 Kabalite are generally seen as an easy kill. The people in my meta haven't really played against ynnari so will go for the kill giving me another Soulburst. By your own words you will happily take advantage of other players mistakes. In my opinion that is defiantly worth losing the Str6 shots. And I'm not losing much in the way of mobility As venoms are fast vehiclea

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