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wormfromhell
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PostSubject: Ravagers   Sun Mar 12 2017, 05:26

I know they're not great, so wondering if anyone still uses them.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Sun Mar 12 2017, 07:42

I use 6 if I'm playing a pure DE double CAD. Otherwise, no.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Sun Mar 12 2017, 08:06

I've never used a Ravager in my life.

But I am an outlier.

I also think you need to delineate your time scale and narrow your scope of question. If you peruse the army list sub you'll find a host of very recent lists that use them but few if any of them (I can't find any) are Ynnari and that's because people are opting to spend their points on things that maximize soul burst instead.

In other threads I've pointed out how instead of building a list to maximize soul burst it could be very effective to use the multi-faction Nature of Ynnari and the ability to contain an infinite number of formations within the Reborn warhost in order to construct lists that ostensibly have 4 or 5 detachments but on paper are drawn as 3.

A third approach I've talked about, and I'm sorry I'm long winded but here's where you join the story, is to mix easily destroyable chaff of one variety or another amongst larger units that actually have teeth when soulburst'd.

At 110 points a naked ravager is a little expensive as chaff but it puts 9 ap2 shots down the field, can deep strike, is easily glanced to death by bolters and is significantly cheaper than the Venom as a an AI platform if you measure in terms of unit cost per meq wound cost, in other words the amount it cost you to fire 1 round of shots with with that unit if you shot at MEQ. It destroys Venoms vs GEQ,TEQ and surprisingly wins on bikes. I'm making up units but: a Venom weighs in at 48.75ppDM (Points per dead MEQ) and a Ravager is 27.5. 330pts of Ravager even does more wounds then the equivalent in venoms to guilleman if they all shoot at him(2 wounds vs 1.12 wounds on average). I may incorporate ravagers into my raw ynnari play if I can find a good enough deal on some.

Thanks for the topic!
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PsychicHobo
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Sun Mar 12 2017, 14:40

Don't forget, that AV 11 actually does make a big enough difference against Bolters. Basically means your opponent has to actually commit to using a more potent gun.

I have some weird success with them as an anti tank platform, but the triple Disintegrator setup is still phenomenal, particularly against bikes and other small high armour units.

They do very much lack Ynnari compatibility however, so it will depend upon the list in question.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Sun Mar 12 2017, 15:50

They're pretty bad. I only run them if I absolutely have to have long range anti-tank support. Razorwings are superior after DftS and Scourges are more powerful with Heat Lances for a similar price.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Sun Mar 12 2017, 16:31

My time on TDC tells me they're subject to meta flux. I've had very poor experiences with them since the codex changeover, and I don't use them anymore. (Prior to that, I had a full attack wing of three.)

Some people here use them in an 'everything counts in large amounts' style, and have reported success with either weapon loadout.
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Sun Mar 12 2017, 17:44

I run pure dark eldar, so I use them.

Safe form bolters, 36" range is SUPER nice. I love running away and blasting my opponent

The 110 point MEQ killer is great if you have enough other AT in your army

They take up HS slots, so why the heck not

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chickendinner
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Mon Mar 13 2017, 23:06

It's the best Anti-TEQ in our codex. Also, unlike other AT, it can sit on an objective in the back and shoot from a safe distance. It is a staple Heavy support choice if you want to run pure DE, particularly if FA slots are crowded.
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Ahrall
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Mon Mar 13 2017, 23:29

I run 3+ tri-lance ravagers in basically every list and they have performed admirably.
1 is not going to cut it, 2 might get the job done, 3 or more is beautiful.

Is it a good model? Not really. Tri-las predator is better in virtually every aspect bar mobility, but our heavy support slot isn't exactly crowded and the ability to tank bolters is a godsend
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Tue Mar 14 2017, 00:41

It's a staple of my heavy support. It absolutely slaughters MEQ and TEQ's, and since it's designed for long range support, I usually just plop it in cover next to an objective for a nice 3+ save. We have better Anti-Tank, but as far as turning heavy infantry into a fine mist, there's nothing better.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Tue Mar 14 2017, 01:28

I recommend them in pure DE lists, but I don't recommend pure DE lists.

Unfortunately, they're outshined by things you could take with allies, like eldar hornets. However, I did just see someone mention that hornets are no longer available on the forgeworld website, so I'm not 100% sure what that means for their future.

Also, hornets can't be taken in the Ynarri warhost, not that it matters much since vehicles are suboptimal for Ynarri anyhow.

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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Tue Mar 14 2017, 01:53

Quote :
I recommend them in pure DE lists, but I don't recommend pure DE lists.

Like, you know what website you're on, right?

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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Tue Mar 14 2017, 02:43

Yeah. I didn't see a sign that said "no allies allowed" hanging on the door when I first joined, and haven't seen anyone but you and captain metal pretending one exists.

lol!

In all seriousness, when I joined, pure DE was a thing, but allies had just been introduced. Since then, a lot has changed. I view TDC as a place in the webway for ALL eldar to meet and swap tactics and stories.

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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Tue Mar 14 2017, 03:16

I know I hammer home spiders, scatbikes, etc. but that's mostly within a competitive environment. Outside of that I enjoy strategizing DE only, partly because it's a challenge and partly because Eldar are soooo boring to play. And even for tournaments I will bring DE lists because it's fun. My latest pet peeve is all the Ynnari stuff I keep seeing in every topic. You'd think we'd changed management or something.

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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Tue Mar 14 2017, 03:49

I don't use them as I find scourges to be sufficient AT, as well as easier to hide than Ravagers.
Plus, the bat winged mercenaries are way cooler Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Tue Mar 14 2017, 09:24

Ok, Ive used Ravagers in competitive lists and they are absolutely not worth it with dark lances.

However, they might find some use with dissies. They spit a considerable ammount of AP2 fire, but they are very dependent on your local meta. Mine tends to adapt pretty quickly to new releases and rulesets, so when necrons and wolfstars were very common I didnt field them, as they are esentially more expensive venoms against both, then the meta switched to tau and eldar and I always fielded 3 becouse of the 3+/2+ saves on riptides, broadsides and scatbikes, then switched again to MSU genestealer cults and gladius strikeforces, so off they go again...

In regards on allies Im with @betraytheworld. This forum is a place to share your experiences and tactics with Dark Eldar. This includes playing Dark Eldar with allies or Ynnari as, like it or not, they are part of the game. You are very welcome to field pure Dark Eldar (I sometimes still do so with good results), but you have to understand that some will advice you to take allies. Being harsh to people that are genuinely trying to help is kinda not nice.

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Draco
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Tue Mar 14 2017, 12:50

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Yeah. I didn't see a sign that said "no allies allowed" hanging on the door when I first joined, and haven't seen anyone but you and captain metal pretending one exists.

lol!

In all seriousness, when I joined, pure DE was a thing, but allies had just been introduced. Since then, a lot has changed. I view TDC as a place in the webway for ALL eldar to meet and swap tactics and stories.

This.

I think it's very easy to overlook the value of this site as well. Not many armies have dedicated sites that function as well as this one does.
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Tue Mar 14 2017, 14:42

@Draco wrote:
@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Yeah. I didn't see a sign that said "no allies allowed" hanging on the door when I first joined, and haven't seen anyone but you and captain metal pretending one exists.

lol!

In all seriousness, when I joined, pure DE was a thing, but allies had just been introduced. Since then, a lot has changed. I view TDC as a place in the webway for ALL eldar to meet and swap tactics and stories.

This.

I think it's very easy to overlook the value of this site as well. Not many armies have dedicated sites that function as well as this one does.

Could you imagine a Marines-only forum? All the whining about how "underpowered" their stuff is? LOL
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Tue Mar 14 2017, 14:58

@Srota wrote:
@Draco wrote:
@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Yeah. I didn't see a sign that said "no allies allowed" hanging on the door when I first joined, and haven't seen anyone but you and captain metal pretending one exists.

lol!

In all seriousness, when I joined, pure DE was a thing, but allies had just been introduced. Since then, a lot has changed. I view TDC as a place in the webway for ALL eldar to meet and swap tactics and stories.

This.

I think it's very easy to overlook the value of this site as well. Not many armies have dedicated sites that function as well as this one does.

Could you imagine a Marines-only forum?  All the whining about how "underpowered" their stuff is?  LOL

cough bolterandchainsword cough

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Tue Mar 14 2017, 15:47

@Srota wrote:
@Draco wrote:
@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Yeah. I didn't see a sign that said "no allies allowed" hanging on the door when I first joined, and haven't seen anyone but you and captain metal pretending one exists.

lol!

In all seriousness, when I joined, pure DE was a thing, but allies had just been introduced. Since then, a lot has changed. I view TDC as a place in the webway for ALL eldar to meet and swap tactics and stories.

This.

I think it's very easy to overlook the value of this site as well. Not many armies have dedicated sites that function as well as this one does.

Could you imagine a Marines-only forum?  All the whining about how "underpowered" their stuff is?  LOL

And how about their codex is never updated and full of nerf when it's finally out.
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Tue Mar 14 2017, 15:53

It quite honestly would probably be complaining about Craftworlders, Tau, and Ultramarines. (Because let's face it. No one but Ultramarines like Ultramarines.)

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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Tue Mar 14 2017, 15:57

Quote :

In regards on allies Im with @betraytheworld. This forum is a place to share your experiences and tactics with Dark Eldar. This includes playing Dark Eldar with allies or Ynnari as, like it or not, they are part of the game. You are very welcome to field pure Dark Eldar (I sometimes still do so with good results), but you have to understand that some will advice you to take allies. Being harsh to people that are genuinely trying to help is kinda not nice.

As I've said before, if you're running Ynnari "for realsies", the number of DE units that should be in it is going to be so small it's beyond mention. If you're looking for a casual list then fine, run whatever you want, and advice will be dispensed to taste. If you're looking for a way to make Dark Eldar more powerful then you're drinking the Kool-aid. And yes, being harsh to people who say "bring Ynnari" is not helpful, but it is darned cathartic when that's the same advice everyone gives and you explicitly post here to avoid that nonsense. If I wanted generic netlist crap advice from a bunch of tryhards who's ITC score is measured in the triple digits I'd post on Dakka or the competitive 40k group.

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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Tue Mar 14 2017, 16:12

To be perfectly honest, I think the whole Ynnari Soulburst thing is exactly what Power from Pain should have been in the first place. It's fantastically fluffy for Dark Eldar. They literally gain power to do supernatural feats whenever something dies (presumably painfully) near them.

As far as I'm concerned, playing Dark Eldar using Ynnari rules (alongside Covens formations like the Grotesquerie) is fluffier than playing them using their actual rulebook.

That's sort of beside the point, but if anyone's thinking that 'just bring Ynnari' is a betrayal of the True Kin in some way, or in some way 'not Dark Eldar', then it might help thinking that way. Unless it's the specific Dark Eldar codex people are wedded to, rather than the fluff, in which case that sounds like a textbook case of Stockholm Syndrome...

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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Tue Mar 14 2017, 17:03

@TeenageAngst wrote:
If I wanted generic netlist crap advice from a bunch of tryhards who's ITC score is measured in the triple digits I'd post on Dakka or the competitive 40k group.

I honestly dont know why I keep replying to your topics. Laughing Laughing Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers   Tue Mar 14 2017, 18:03

Quote :

I honestly dont know why I keep replying to your topics. Laughing Laughing Laughing

Because you're addicted to train wrecks and my raw, uncut nuggets of 40k wisdom slung like a crotchety father belligerantly hammering their teenager with sage life wisdom while sporting a wife beater and boxer shorts and watching the Weather Channel from a recliner.

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