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 A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take

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WildCandy
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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 13:29

I heard a rumor that he can look out sir to stern guard. Anyone can confirm?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 13:38

Yeah I saw something about that. I think it's a rule for the Victrix Detachment. All models within 3" of Guilliman can do a Look out, Sir! It takes away the best way of killing him, as he'll have (effectively) a 4++ save against any 6 results on the D chart (and Stomps).

If that detachment is any good it's changed my mind on RG. He's definitely OP.

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WildCandy
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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 13:40

So all the units that get most Benefit of being near him flock on him. Blast and template weapons will be precious.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 13:56

It looks like it's a special rule for an auxiliary of the Victrix Strike Force meta detachment. Units from the Victrix Guard (Sicarius, 1 unit of Honour Guard, 4 Units of Sternguard) can Lo,S! to him. Which means that you roll to hit and wound against RG and then he decides whether to Lo,S! any wounds onto a completely different unit (which you can either run cheap as expendable grunts or expensive with Storm Shields).

Oh and they're all ObjSec too.

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ligolski
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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 14:39

Yea I believe you have to take sicarius, 4 squads of stern/van in any combination, honor guard may be optional? I can't remember, Robby G can LoS if within 6" or something like that. They can't take rhinos or anything either...so they are footing it still. Definitely something that would be hard to beat if all the points are dumped into them.

That's a ton of points though, I still don't think he's OP. Magnus and deamons are far more OP than anything there.

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 16:40

Wait. Problem solved, he can't hurt the avatar of Khaine at all. Thank you soulblaze.

I can finally field one of my 5 painted models lol.
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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 17:23

Nor can the Yncarme for that matter.

Ol' Avatar's not looking like such a pushover any more!

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 19:12

Red: nope. At S6 with smash and a 3++ punching the Avatar of Khaine in the face will still kill it before RG dies.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 19:16

WildCandy wrote:
As debuffin guilliman is hard, good choice could be to try buff wk with sword
invisibility
ancestors grace
prescience
fortune

Yes, a buffed sword and board wraithknight is probably the way to go. An invisible wraithknight would probably do the trick. Without invisibility, I'd probably want to stack things like ancestors grace, prescience, and fortune in order to ensure favourable odds. Ancestor's grace alone is actually pretty good though. It gets you pretty close to mutual assured destruction. But invisibility would put a sword and board wraithknight over the top, if you could get it.

amorrowlyday wrote:

Back to the Wraithknight discussion: Not one person mentioned the stomps, is that because we don't expect the fight to go to 2 turns no matter what or mere forgetfulness? a stomp of 6 and he's still gone no matter what right?

I actually calculated stomp risk into my 25% shot of a sword and board wraithknight killing him.

ligolski wrote:
He's a MC that can move 6". He is slow as you know what. Being DE and Eldar, we are quick, light footed, maneuverable. Use that to keep away and kill everything else.

Yeah, we've already covered this. You can stay away from him, but his army-wide buffs make all things harder to kill, and having ALL command traits, if positioned properly, can create an area larger than a 28 inch bubble in which models are benefitting from his abilities(by having just a model or two inside his range, with the rest of the unit strung outside it.) It also basically creates a 30" bubble of area denial around him, where he can basically keep you from entering it for fear of coming within assault range of him. This essentially auto-wins him missions like "The Relic" if your intent is to stay out of his threat range.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 19:19

in layman terms: it doesn't matter that he's slow, his aura is the real boon and it takes up a third of the board.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 20:54

You guys are silly. He's the worst unit type in the game: a non-flying monstrous creature. We have poison on literally everything. Do the math.

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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 21:01

Math said not enough poison.
2+/3++ doesn't care about poison.
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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 21:14

6 Venoms will dish out 12 shots each for a total of 72.
48 of those hit.
24 of those wound.
4 of those are failed saves
1-2 of those get FNP away.

He's dead in 2 rounds of shooting from just half my dedicated transports alone, and if he begins to LOS those wounds, then his entire army will be shot off the board around him. He's a chump.

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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 21:17

3 round, since he gets back on a 4+.
And all those shots could kill something else in the meantime, anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 21:20

Well his command traits are kinda useless if the army is shot away around him, that's another good plan. Either way I'm not really worried about him.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 21:28

You know he has 6 wounds right? so 3 turns AND he has a 50/50 to get back up. He takes literally as many poison shots to kill as a wraithknight (~250) albeit for different reasons. IF they take the victrix formation with Sicarius as well he'll be able to LoS those attacks onto other stuff on a 4+

Killing the things around him won't be easy either as he will be propagating every command trait and they will likely have a banner granting each space marine you kill a shooting attack on a 5+ (before the attack).

We can't kill him and he buffs MEQ by leaps and bounds. Dealing with that is not going to be trivial by any stretch of the imagination.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 21:43

@amorrow

The avatars "molten body rule" specifically declares him unaffected by pyromancy, flamers, and ALL ATTACKS THAT HAVE THE MELTA AND/OR SOULBLAZE SPECIAL RULES. (Sorry can't bold on a phone).

Looking at his datasheet, like the eldar characters he has no listed wargear, so with no other weapon to select other than his awesome sword in CC, he is by the rules unable to hurt the avatar of khaine.

Also he has no grenades listed on his profile, now I'm sure they will add them in the FAQ (unlike the eldar characters), but unless I'm missing something he will be I1 if he charges into cover.

Also the avatar is apparently immune to 1K sons my friend told me upon hearing that.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 21:46

Agreed on the grenades, though that doesn't matter about the Avatar since it will swing at i10.  you can opt to not use any weapon. so his native swing is s6ap2.

actually belay that I want to get you a citation first. (failed)

As of right now, March 10th 2017 I agree with you and all of the discussion for the last 4 pages are based on a falsehood.

If RG could make melee attacks without using his godsword he'd win at S6AP2. RAW he can not and Red is correct. There are lots of rules about when and how to acquire CCW's if you don't have one, but RG has one. He also is able to attack by using the single 2xS version of a smash attack.


Last edited by amorrowlyday on Fri Mar 10 2017, 22:01; edited 1 time in total
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 22:00

You're probably right, but I can't find it in the book, only thing I'm seeing is that he must choose one of his weapons if he has more than one.

I thought maybe it was the "everyone is assumed to have a close combat weapon (Str user ap-)" but that is only "if a model is not specifically stated as having a weapon with the melee type".

Is it elsehwere in the book?

Also even if so I'll take strength 6 ap2 over Str D/10 any day, and the avatar hits back harder (though the difference in invuln probably make it a wash).

Math hammer dictates that (hitting on 3's wounding on 4's) will result in the 350 girly man doing 1 wound a turn to the avatar.

The avatar deals slightly less than one a turn due to the invuln and fnp but in a 1v1 our >200 point avatar will tarpit him for ~5 turns.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 22:04

Neither can I. please read my edit. I think you are absolutely correct, nothing I've been able to find has enabled you to not use a CCW. Now RG is free to use his single 2xS smash attack but that just ensures he's tarpitted for the game as he isn't going to kill a AoK with it.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 22:08

Yeah your edit showed up as I was typing.
To be fair, a reading of smash seems to indicate that it still uses his weapon. Though a single Str 10 attack a turn, as you said, will not effectively kill the Avatar.

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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 22:17

Perhaps, though since I've never made my Talos' smash attack fleshbane I erred conservatively in that the smash attack is a special kind of attack that has no modifiers, though that may not be the case.
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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 22:21

I can't say one way or the other. To me the earlier wording of "treats all attacks..." while obviously pertaining to the ap2 portion of the rule sets a "language precedent" in the rule that isn't changed by any other words in the rule before reaching the point about the 1 str×2 attack that says he "rolls to hit as normal" but doubles the strength of the attack. Idk it isn't clear.

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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 23:37

I've never seen an Avatar of Khaine on a table in a competitive game. It dies too easily to everything OTHER than melta/soulblaze weapons.

So sure, an AoK can tarpit Girlyman. Too bad no one will allow the AoK to make it into combat with girlyman.

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PostSubject: Re: A 'Girly-Man' Mon-Keigh returns, a pleasurable prize to take   Fri Mar 10 2017, 23:46

I recommend invisibility, who isn't running a seer council? And the Ynnari traits increase your chance of getting it slightly.


I don't think it's competitive, but it could be fun and might be worth it if he starts making every top table list.

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