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 Ynnari are as good as I thought

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 02:17

As I understand the rules, you could, but then they would lose access to their formation benefits.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 04:07

Why? I felt similarly in a game against another ynnari player but couldn't cleanly articulate why.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 05:03

I thought the FAQs have clearly and consistently ruled that ICs cannot join a formation unit to gain the bennies. (If you join a Shadowseer to a Seer Council, they don't get to harness on a 3+)
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 05:05

I agree but the benefit here is simply treating coming on from another table edge as your own. If the wider unit thinks it's your table edge why wouldn't the IC?
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 05:05

Because that's a formation benefit, which the IC doesn't get.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 05:06

Do you include your actual table edge in that answer? If not why not?

Is the entirety of that formations reserve roll subject to formation benefits? I'd think so and this is why I think your roght
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 05:10

Because that's how Reserves come on. No formation benefit required.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 05:10

Okay but how do you roll once for the formation and not extend that benefit to an attached IC?( you brought out this question with your responses it wasn't posed to me and is why I think you are actuallly right)
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 05:16

If you have an IC attached to one of the formation's units, I'd argue that you don't roll once for the whole formation.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 07:14

@Jimsolo wrote:
If you have an IC attached to one of the formation's units, I'd argue that you don't roll once for the whole formation.  

Agreed, because that benefit only applies to units from the formation and an attached IC is not a unit from the formation.

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Vlad
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 09:31

Can someone give me an example of how you would deal with Ynnaeds net as a non ynnari player? Or how to give yourself the best chance? I have a couple ideas, just wanted to see what you guys thought!
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 09:47

Bring Interceptor


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Vlad
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 09:56

Heh.That is a good point and would be very useful in this situation!!
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 11:11

Another suggestion would be to make sure you deploy any vehicles with low rear AV on the baseline to prevent anyone getting rear shots in. S6 shooting from the Windriders and Skyweavers will be less effective and some vehicles will become immune.

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 11:29

Hmmm yeah which is definitely an option but it leaves the ynnari player to grab objectives whilst the non ynnari players parks up at the back and shoots from afar. I still think 6 scat bikes even on side armour will do the job. Probably do it twice to be fair with Soulburst
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 13:16

They only get to do it twice if they kill something with the first volley. (Granted, very likely with 24 S6 shots.)
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Vlad
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 14:09

Yep this is what I meant and chances are they will finish the job twice over granting another unit a Soulburst action if they are close enough, which with the reavers near by shouldn't be a problem
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 16:32

If I had a dollar for every time someone said "the Ynnari player grabs objectives" I'd have my car payment covered. I'm not sure why the Ynnari player would be grabbing objectives. That's not how this army works from my experience.
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 16:38

@TeenageAngst well if the opponents game plan was to sit in his vehicles at the back of the board until turn 3 then the ynnari player might as well grab some early objectives!
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 18:27

Who does that though? Guard and some marine players, that's about it. Your job isn't to grab objectives, your job is to table the person by turn 3.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 18:56

@TeenageAngst wrote:
Your job isn't to grab objectives, your job is to table the person by turn 3.

This is one of those rare times where I seem to be in agreement with TA. I've been doing quite a bit of experimenting with various list compositions for Ynnari, and with the lack of Obsec, killing as much as possible as quickly as possible seems to be what Ynnari are geared towards.

It's actually sort of disappointing, because I normally play finesse lists that don't look all that threatening but crush people through clever use of under-utilized models, but Ynnari lists seem to favor TA's standard brute-force call to arms for Eldar players: "Wraithknights, Scatbikes, and Warp Spiders, oh my!!" Wink

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Because the psychic phase is actually the only thing you CAN'T do with soulburst actions, in a Ynnari army, other than buffs that last through soulburst actions(like guide/prescience), I think psykers are often going to be a tax/trap that players spend too many points on.

I normally play psychic deathstars, but when experimenting with combinations of psychic deathstars and Ynnari units, it seems like the psychic deathstars take up too many points in a Ynnari list, not leaving enough room for all the models who can potentially get double shooting phases. This is a problem for me, primarily due to the lack of obsec. I typically make up for my resultant low model count with obsec units that can be strategically placed at key times to score VPs.

Since I don't own a bazillion scatbikes and warp spiders, an army full of those plus a wraithknight isn't within reach for me at the upcoming adepticon, but such a ynnari force would probably be extremely formidable.

As such, if I run a Ynnari force at adepticon at all, it will probably be a small Ynnari force allied with Eldar/DE.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Wed Mar 08 2017, 22:06

I mean there's other ways to run Ynnari but they're so specific it's almost beyond discussion. You take the natural strength of mass S6 and multiply it at the expense of ob-sec this way and it clobbers people.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Thu Mar 09 2017, 04:37

Not really. Detachment level category manipulation creates a complete category of 10+ builds to be explored. Lists that use the sheer modularity of CE/DE/H to support Corsairs or Covens will be radically different from Soulburst lists that take allies for chaff, obsec, or a specific non-ynnari tool like the skathach.

Those lists will not be inherently local meta dependent.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Thu Mar 09 2017, 05:07

I had another game with them, this time against my usual sparring partner and his Sternguard at 2000 points. Lost my WK on turn 1 to drop pod grav and the game went to turn 5 but honestly it was impossible for him to recover by the end of turn 3. This army is downright disgusting.

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Vlad
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari are as good as I thought   Thu Mar 09 2017, 10:37

@TeenageAngst would be interesting to see your list at 2000 points? What units did you find did well and what units would you maybe change for next time?
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