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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Anti-Ynnari Tactics   Sun Feb 26 2017, 20:46

What are everyone's thoughts on playing against strength from death lists without strength from death yourself?
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Ynnari Tactics   Sun Feb 26 2017, 20:51

Wyvern spam.

Edit: Oh, right, this is Dark Eldar tactics.

Fighting Ynnari is literally the same as fighting CWE except they're even more powerful. It's been my experience that Dark Eldar do better against CWE than most armies but honestly we don't really have a response to Ynnari tactics. Off the cuff I would say Corpsethief supported by a Dark Artisan, as it would take something like 500+ scatter lasers to statistically kill the unit, but a Wraithknight with D-cannons and stomps could just nuke it if it ever became a problem. Also, spiders don't care about toughness and good luck getting them close enough to do any damage. Flyers are a tough one too as the spiders can jump away from the pie plates and the bikes aren't really that concerned with S6 AP5 blasts. As of right now I'm pretty flummoxed as to how to overcome them without feeding them free actions.

I will say though that a pair of Heldrakes makes any and all problems you might have with Ynnari go away immediately.

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Happy_inquisitor
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Ynnari Tactics   Sun Feb 26 2017, 21:27

@amorrowlyday wrote:
What are everyone's thoughts on playing against strength from death lists without strength from death yourself?

1. Don't try to out-MSU Ynnari, MSU just feeds them.
2. Keep your distance
3. Whittle down their units before you start killing their units
4. Play the mission, Ynnari give up Objective Secured so use that rule to win the mission

It is not going to be easy because some of the most efficient units in the game just became more deadly - and the combos available to a Ynnari force are pretty vicious. OK those combos are available anyway but they feel more efficient - with less "tax" units - in the Ynnari warhost.
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Ynnari Tactics   Mon Feb 27 2017, 02:13

target priority becomes even more important as does order of activation. You need to be very careful how you go about killing units and in what order to minimise soul burst options

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Mathai
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Ynnari Tactics   Mon Feb 27 2017, 06:43

I'd say look for any opportunities to tank shock the enemy out of that 7 inch Strength From Death bubble before focusing them down. And if you can assault something AND the units around it, then SFD is far less dangerous to proc.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Ynnari Tactics   Mon Feb 27 2017, 07:05

I think melee armies will do well against Ynnari, since soulburst seems to work best for ranged units.

A lot also depends on how TOs end up ruling the "strength from death" rule, since right now it functionally does nothing in your turn. We've basically found rules that would cause every action, moving, shooting, or charging to debatably only be allowed once per turn, despite the soulburst rule.

Example: An argument can be made for only being allowed to shoot the same target as the first, so if you trigger soulburst from shooting a unit to death, you can't shoot another unit. I don't agree with this argument for reasons I went into more detail elsewhere, but the argument is there, and it isn't clear, one way or another.

One can easily make an intent argument that they intended for the power to function. But the problem here is that the scope of the power in question is so far reaching that if you allow the "intent" argument, you have to choose a line at which to limit it arbitrarily because the things that naturally limit it make it non-functional, and without those limits, it becomes absurdly powerful. I expect the final ruling to be somewhere between the two.(Which I just now realized is basically guaranteed based on my wording!) Very Happy

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Mathai
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Ynnari Tactics   Tue Feb 28 2017, 01:06

They really need to fire the room full of Jokaero with typewriters that make the rules for these damn things! I don't think I ever read a codex that didn't spark debate on what the hell they mean.
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Ynnari Tactics   Tue Feb 28 2017, 02:35

Your opponent will want to stack his units close, sacrificing cover to maintain cohesion, to max his soulbursts. Use mass razorwing, air superiority and missile the hell out of him. Target one side of the field, and direct the units toward the center.
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Srota
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Ynnari Tactics   Tue Feb 28 2017, 02:43

I'd say things that soak up fire well like Taloses and Grots would be effective, use beastpacks to tie up surrounding units in melee, and just rip them apart one section at a time.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Ynnari Tactics   Tue Feb 28 2017, 03:34

If we're talking unit choice, Grotesques would be great. As Ynnari seem to want to get close, and want to go MSU, I think a CTC could do very well.

Keep careful track of who has and has not used SfD, and try to break their daisy chains where possible. If you have mixed weapon squads, try to attack from angles such that when the last group of casualties are removed, nearby units are out of range for SfD.

I think Deathstars might do well against Ynnari, especially melee focused ones.
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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Ynnari Tactics   Tue Feb 28 2017, 10:59

Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but using a number of Death Jesters could be useful against Ynnari by using the Death is Not Enough rule to pull them out of 7/14" Soulburst range.

As it's just the single shot (or the 3 for the cannon, can't remember if DiNE triggers on that firing mode), you can take it before any of your other shooting and not worry so much about wiping out a unit and triggering Soulburst. Plus, as a number of Ynnari units are fairly fragile, a S6 AP4 weapon is fairly likely to cause a wound and trigger the effect.

Then, you can light up that unit with focussed fire and annihilate it while it's out of position.

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Ynnari Tactics   Tue Feb 28 2017, 14:15

Corsairs should be good, with their "move away" ability.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Ynnari Tactics   Tue Feb 28 2017, 15:43

Any HTH deathstar will be able to beat them. Especially if they get their powers for rerolls, FNP etc up.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Ynnari Tactics   Tue Feb 28 2017, 16:13

I dunno. The Ynnari can throw down buckets of denial dice, and if they're built for ranged MSU a melee star could be up you-know-what Creek.
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Srota
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PostSubject: Re: Anti-Ynnari Tactics   Tue Feb 28 2017, 16:27

Honestly, I think the best way to deny Ynnari is proper use of combats. You really need to keep them locked in combats within 7 inches of the desired target units, as that seems to be the most efficient way of keeping them from acting. I'd imagine Hit and Run tactics (i.e. Eldar or White Scars) would be very effective at this. Charge in and lock them up in melee, before breaking away and getting out of range or behind cover at the end of the phase.

In addition, you can try and separate them from one another, most likely leadership shenanigans could be good for this. Pop their 7" bubbles, and they lose a lot.
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