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 Razorwings: yes or no

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AwkwarDave
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PostSubject: Razorwings: yes or no    Sat Feb 25 2017, 17:44

I'm new to dark eldar and am in the process of building my army.

My local game shop isn't the most reliable when it comes to their inventory. That being said I recently found a razorwing on my vacation. Knowing my local gamestore probably won't be getting any in anytime soon, is a razorwing worth having? Are two razorwings worth having?

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thenick18
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Sat Feb 25 2017, 17:58

As with any DE unit, redundancy is key. I usually take 2 or none in a list.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Sat Feb 25 2017, 19:22

It fills a roll in our army that is already filled by other units.

Pro:
-Has large blasts (something we lack)
-OK at taking out infantry
-Is difficult to kill (unless the enemy has dedicated AA)

Con:
-Is garbage at taking out tanks
-we already have lots of anti infantry units

Personally I have been taking 1, since I want to try and make the enemy spread out. But even if you get 20 hits with your missiles, it only kills 1-2 marines...

I dont really like it TBH, but YMMV
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Sat Feb 25 2017, 19:30

Missiles are a waste of points and the reason why I scoff at people who moan about how expensive a voidraven is. Like everything else in our army upgrades are frequently novel yet worthless pointsinks.

A base Razorwing is absolutely viable AI that essentially can't be targeted until it gets to shoot first, and naturally gives you a buffer window to kill off their transports. Dark lances are woefully misunderstood. It can't take 2 dark lances in order to go tank hunting, it can take 2 dark lances in order to go fmc hunting.

Too bad everyone loads it up with a bunch of crap and then complains about how it's such a waste of points. smh.
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wormfromhell
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Sat Feb 25 2017, 20:05

yes, it might not be good at AA, but its the best we've got (barring the void raven) necrotoxin missiles are also underestimated, especially against tau. I will be running a wing of 2, because redundancy.
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Mononcule
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Sat Feb 25 2017, 20:13

I like them a lot, they provide 4 large blast to wipe infantry. They often make their points back with this initial strike, and after that you have a 2/3 dissie ravager with permanent invisibility that cant be attacked in assault. If the opponent try to shoot it down, its even better: they waste their shots on it instead of my venoms/talos/raiders/ravagers.

I used them once in pair: 8 large blast are brutal.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Sat Feb 25 2017, 20:20

Those four S6 missiles are just not that great, unless you are playing against a hoard army. Hoard armies are woefully underpowered right now, so even in these instances the Razorwing is just the final nail in the coffin.

But I agree, please dont buy a bunch of upgrades for the Razorwing. The most use I get out of mine is just with the 10 pt Splinter Cannon upgrade. That way all your weapons are foccussed on AI duties, so your shots (however weak they may be) are useful.

Out of curiosity, when have people actually had the Razorwing do work? I know they are NOT good against:
-Necrons
-Space Marines (and all variations, including Chaos)
-Anything with a 3+ cover save
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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Sun Feb 26 2017, 00:02

They do decent against SM when they've just dropped in via DS or popped out of a destroyed vehicle.

I view them as flying Venoms with one use missiles. Good burst damage on the turn it shows up but it becomes a super expensive venom after that.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Sun Feb 26 2017, 01:39

@amorrowlyday wrote:
Missiles are a waste of points and the reason why I scoff at people who moan about how expensive a voidraven is. Like everything else in our army upgrades are frequently novel yet worthless pointsinks.

A base Razorwing is absolutely viable AI that essentially can't be targeted until it gets to shoot first, and naturally gives you a buffer window to kill off their transports. Dark lances are woefully misunderstood. It can't take 2 dark lances in order to go tank hunting, it can take 2 dark lances in order to go fmc hunting.

Too bad everyone loads it up with a bunch of crap and then complains about how it's such a waste of points. smh.


DE players know DL are not AT and I actually take Dis-Cannons for Anti FMC only b.c 2 Lances and 6 D-Cannons vs up to T6 the Cannons do more (t7+ thats different) but sense most FMC are Nids/Daemon Princes if I do take a Razorwing it is with Dis-Cannons


@AwkwarDave Also, your local cant order you stuff?


@fisheyes wrote:
Those four S6 missiles are just not that great, unless you are playing against a hoard army. Hoard armies are woefully underpowered right now, so even in these instances the Razorwing is just the final nail in the coffin.

But I agree, please dont buy a bunch of upgrades for the Razorwing. The most use I get out of mine is just with the 10 pt Splinter Cannon upgrade. That way all your weapons are foccussed on AI duties, so your shots (however weak they may be) are useful.

Out of curiosity, when have people actually had the Razorwing do work? I know they are NOT good against:
-Necrons
-Space Marines (and all variations, including Chaos)
-Anything with a 3+ cover save

They dont do work for me at all, if I take them its for a fun list otherwise I take Eldar fliers. Edit: Should say its b.c my meta is why it doesnt work, I dont play DE in tournaments so I cant say about that meta. yes I've played it with 2-3 of them and yes many times with DL's instead of Dis-cannons, but the Dis-cannons makes it more viable for me.

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Last edited by amishprn86 on Sun Feb 26 2017, 01:56; edited 2 times in total
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Sun Feb 26 2017, 01:54

They're pretty good if you enjoy reserves manipulation and one time use missiles. I like running them with Dark Lances myself.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Sun Feb 26 2017, 02:51

I have run one a couple of times and been very underwhelmed by its performance.
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doriii
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Sun Feb 26 2017, 06:43

when i have taken them its just one or two with DL's. They rarely do that much unless i catch a blob offguard. Its almost like shooting from a raider, as it tends to fail lance. lol. im thinking of running 3+ in the near future with the Splinter Cannon upg only for the numbers of shots fired would be cool
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Sun Feb 26 2017, 21:08

@amorrowlyday wrote:
Missiles are a waste of points and the reason why I scoff at people who moan about how expensive a voidraven is. Like everything else in our army upgrades are frequently novel yet worthless pointsinks.

A base Razorwing is absolutely viable AI that essentially can't be targeted until it gets to shoot first, and naturally gives you a buffer window to kill off their transports. Dark lances are woefully misunderstood. It can't take 2 dark lances in order to go tank hunting, it can take 2 dark lances in order to go fmc hunting.

Too bad everyone loads it up with a bunch of crap and then complains about how it's such a waste of points. smh.

Seconded.
Skyfire Lances (anti fmc) and anti-mass GEQ are it's key roles. You might not need those things in your army, but if you do, the Razorwing is gold.

I have yet to try them with DftS, which might increase their value even further. Does anybody has some experience with Razorwings and DftS? Would be really interesting to hear some success stories (or the lack thereof).
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Sun Feb 26 2017, 23:58

DftS is the only way to use them. Assuming your opponent doesn't have any flyers, the +2/-2 reserve modification for you and the -2 to opponent reserves is fantastic. Pretty much forcing your opponent to deploy his entire army turn 1.
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Mon Feb 27 2017, 15:16

Everything @Hellstrom said, plus pseudo-vector dancer on a 5-.
If you use the flying patterns you get a few bonus, but you need 3 or more for the relatively good stuff.
As an indirect bonus, my usual adversary stopped bringing helldrakes
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Mon Feb 27 2017, 19:56

I usually run 2 razorwings in my maelstrom list, as I find them necessary at tournaments when that one or two people bring out their FMC spam Tyranids. The disintegrators are really the way to go, and stock missiles do plenty. As a model, I find that it to be really nice and looks great on the table, which is a big plus in my book as to why you should field the model. There's something to be said for having a really sexy flier sitting on the table!
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mika
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Mon Feb 27 2017, 20:56

I love my Razorwing, he never failed me.
I usually go with Dissis + Splinter Cannon and 2 Necrotoxin missiles. Never lances.
There is a nice trick with having different missiles. Since they are a different weapon you can use 2, and see how much damage you did, then you can decide if you want to use the other 2 missiles, or finish the job with dissis and cannon.
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Fri Mar 03 2017, 08:42

Pair from DtFS is the way to go if you want to take them, bonus for Reserve Manipulation and free FA slots.
Some nice bonuses for performance.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Fri Mar 03 2017, 09:46

To bad NO ONE plays DftS :/

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Fri Mar 03 2017, 11:21

WE play, just without the Duels. Duels are crap and time consuming. You can propose that.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Fri Mar 03 2017, 14:10

You are literally the 1st person that says your local area actually plays them.

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mika
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Fri Mar 03 2017, 15:20

Our German tournamnet circuit also includes DTFS without the duel phase.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Fri Mar 03 2017, 22:17

@amishprn86 wrote:
You are literally the 1st person that says your local area actually plays them.

I've been using them since I started posting on this board >____>

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Fri Mar 03 2017, 22:25

I like them, they seem like fun additions to my casual games, I'll start using them in my area also.
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwings: yes or no    Fri Mar 03 2017, 22:58

I've never seen the DFTS rules used, ever.
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