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 The (freakless) Show 1850

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Dalamar
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PostSubject: The (freakless) Show 1850   Tue Feb 21 2017, 21:02

+++ The Show (1850pts) +++

++ Ulthwé Strike Force (Eldar Craftworlds: Codex (2015) v2020) (370pts) ++

+ Elites (370pts) +

····Black Guardian War Walkers (95pts)
······War Walker [2x Eldar Missile Launcher]

····Black Guardian War Walkers (95pts)
······War Walker [2x Eldar Missile Launcher]

····Black Guardian Windriders (90pts)
······3x Black Guardian Windrider w/ Scatter Laser

····Black Guardian Windriders (90pts)
······3x Black Guardian Windrider w/ Scatter Laser

++ Y Reborn Warhost (Ynnari Aeldari: Fracture of Biel-Tan (2017) v2002) (1480pts) ++

+ HQ (230pts) +

····(DE) Archon (130pts) [Artefact (DE): The Armour of Misery, Blaster, Close Combat Weapon, Haywire Grenades, Webway Portal]

····(E) Autarch (100pts) [Banshee Mask, Laser Lance, Shuriken Pistol, Skyrunner Jetbike]

+ Elites (185pts) +

····(H) Shadowseer (100pts) [Artefact (H): The Mask of Secrets, Mastery Level 2, Shuriken Pistol]

····(H) Shadowseer (85pts) [Mastery Level 2, Shuriken Pistol]

+ Troops (80pts) +

····(DE) Kabalite Warriors (40pts) [5x Kabalite Warrior]

····(DE) Kabalite Warriors (40pts) [5x Kabalite Warrior]

+ Fast Attack (209pts) +

····(DE) Raider (55pts) [Disintegrator Cannon]

····(DE) Raider (55pts) [Disintegrator Cannon]

····(DE) Reavers (99pts) [Cluster Caltrops, 2x Reaver]
······Arena Champion [Close Combat Weapon]
······Reaver w/ Special Weapon [Heat Lance]

+ Formation (776pts) +

····Formation (E): Aspect Host (356pts)
······(E) Fire Dragons [4x Fire Dragon]
········Fire Dragon Exarch [Fusion Gun]
······(E) Fire Dragons [4x Fire Dragon]
········Fire Dragon Exarch [Fusion Gun]
······(E) Swooping Hawks [5x Swooping Hawk]
········Swooping Hawk Exarch [Hawk's Talon]

····Formation (E): Seer Council (420pts)
······(E) Farseer [Artefact (E): The Spirit Stone of Anath'lan, Singing Spear]
······(E) Farseer [Singing Spear]
······(E) Warlock Conclave
········Warlock [Singing Spear]
········Warlock [Singing Spear]
········Warlock [Singing Spear]
········Warlock [Singing Spear]
········Warlock [Witchblade]

So what do you think?  Also what would your strategy be for rolling for powers?

1. If you don't roll the choose powers warlord trait?
2. If you roll the trait do you choose farseer or shadowseer to guarantee mirror of minds, or does it depend on match up?

I have never done modern psychics before and could use some help.

thanks
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: The (freakless) Show 1850   Tue Feb 21 2017, 21:26

Locks on Battle, Spirit Stone Farseer on TP. Other Farseer on Fate.

Shadowseers roll once on Phantasmancy. If you get Laugh of Sorrow or Mirror of Minds roll again, otherwise sacrifice for Veil then take Shriek.

That's how I'd go, anyway.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: The (freakless) Show 1850   Tue Feb 21 2017, 21:33

I think, with such a low model count force and no obsec, you're going to live and die by scatter rolls on those fire dragons. Also, against a canny opponent who understands what you're attempting to do, you can be stymied by them spreading their forces out so that you can't hit dual meltas on ideal targets with soulburst actions from the first vehicle explosions.

Please understand that I'm not saying the list is bad. It has some pretty nice null deployment beta strike potential, and is similar to lists I've recently recommended. I'm just pointing out the weaknesses so that you're aware of them, should you choose to run with the idea.

You have a lot of independent characters and psykers here. Before you commit to a list like this, you should definitely take some time and think about how, precisely, you're going to use those psykers. Then, once you have a plan for what you want them to do, compare that with how you can expect them to perform under that plan, what they can kill, and how often, and decide if the points you're spending on them is worth it.

I am personally a fan of psychic deathstars, but I use them in very calculated and exacting ways that I'm not going to go into right now, because it would take a long post to fully explain. And the Reborn warhost makes it easier than ever to get all the characters together you need to make a "freakshow" psyker list, that's true. However, I'm not certain that heavy psyker lists are the way to go with the Ynnari, who's army special rule can benefit every phase EXCEPT the psychic phase.

I'd probably still take 1-2 farseers, specifically to fish for the "pick your powers" warlord trait, and the power that allows you to trigger soulburst actions, but other than that, I'd mostly focus on taking short-range shooting units, and ways to deal with enemy invisible units(like reavers).

Anyhow, again, this isn't to say that this list couldn't work. But you need to develop your plan for the psychic phase, because that is half of your army here. As a head start, you basically want the things that function off of leadership, like psychic shriek(telepathy) and mirror of minds(phantasmancy). Also, because you don't have a lot of models or ways to deal with hordes, you're often going to want things like nova powers like cleansing flame to hurt lots of weak units at once. And because you don't have jetbikes for your council, gate of infinity might be useful to get around the board. Those are the basics, but I basically use an internal flowchart based on what kind of opponent I'm facing, where I roll powers differently based on what I am likely to need against a given opponent.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: The (freakless) Show 1850   Wed Feb 22 2017, 02:28

You have a nice list but you haven't explained how you plan to pilot that bad boy. I'm assuming the USF is there for null deployment, the Archon to get people where they need to be, and the Raiders for the Fire Dragons. Autarch would go with the Seer Council or Reavers I guess, assuming the Seer Council is going to be used to assault things. Overwatch isn't exactly an issue with the Seer Council though so I'm still wondering why he's in there because 4 Reavers aren't worthy of an escort that costs more than they do. I'm not seeing a Wraithknight which isn't so much an odd exclusion as it is just a straight up bad decision given how much more utility the Ynnari special rule gives it. Also warriors for troops... why? This looks less like a practical tournament list and more like an excuse to run Dark Eldar with some crutch Eldar.

Rolling for powers here, it's a Seer Star. You roll it how you would roll a Seer Star: Fortune, Invisibility, then the rest on Divination and Sanctic for the warlocks. You're looking for Gate of Infinity (less so without Baharoth), Sanctuary, and Hammerhand. Cleansing Flame is nice too. Phantasmancy/Telepathy for the Shadowseers for the primaris powers unless you feel like shoving both of them in the same unit in which case pick a table for each.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: The (freakless) Show 1850   Wed Feb 22 2017, 02:56

Banshee mask autarch allows him to split off from the council and assault something on his own without having to worry about dying to overwatch. It's more than worth it at 5 points for that tactical flexibility on a ~100 point model.

By himself with a power lance, he can take out 5 man units of MEQ and basically be a threat to just about any non-TEQ infantry, while having the option to go after lower-toughness MCs. I personally prefer them with the shard of anaris so that they can basically threaten anything, but that's another 30 point luxury purchase that many lists can't afford to pay.

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PostSubject: Re: The (freakless) Show 1850   Wed Feb 22 2017, 03:01

Can't say I'm much impressed by that "tactical flexibility" but then again I'm the kinda guy who runs Mandrakes and uses Warp Spiders in close combat to kill Farseers.

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PostSubject: Re: The (freakless) Show 1850   Wed Feb 22 2017, 04:26

You're already paying the points for the autarch because you need him for null deployment. So what is another 40 points to make him capable of doing something?

I think that 40 points is better than 40 points on a shadow field. Being able to split off from the council and assault, say, a unit of grav cannon devastators without being overwatched earns back those points 5 times over.

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PostSubject: Re: The (freakless) Show 1850   Wed Feb 22 2017, 04:45

I'd rather ditch the Autarch altogether, take a Jetseer, stick a Shadowseer in the council, and fish for Scrier's Gaze instead of invisibility.

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PostSubject: Re: The (freakless) Show 1850   Wed Feb 22 2017, 04:53

Dropping the autarch doesn't give you enough points for a jetseer, and I'd generally rather be able to depend on abilities that make my army function, or not.

Things coming on the board is pretty important for a null deploy army, and since his council isn't starting on the board because it's a foot council that is deep striking in, fishing for a psychic power that they have to be on the board to cast seems sort of backwards.

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PostSubject: Re: The (freakless) Show 1850   Wed Feb 22 2017, 05:09

There's a thousand ways I'd do this differently (comms relay, VSG, not null deploy) if I was making the list but most of that would require an entire rewrite. As I said, the lack of a WK and the bizarre slot loadouts make me wonder what the goal is. If you want an effective null deploy list there are better ways of getting it. If you want an effective tournament list this doesn't quite have the teeth. If you want a fun list to take advantage of different aspects of the new content then it's fine.

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PostSubject: Re: The (freakless) Show 1850   Wed Feb 22 2017, 14:36

OK, thanks for the feedback. Now to answer some questions and respond to some comments.

* first off why do i have warriors? Because they are the cheapest troop we get and I'm already points starved.

* wraithknight? 1. I don't own one. 2. this army is already points starved and model count light. what would you replace for the wraithknight?

* just a reminder there are no fortification slots in the reborn warhost.

* part of the build is null deploy. you need the autarch or risk losing at end of turn 1. can't have a comms relay.

* there are deployment options for this army. if they have a knight i attach the Archon to one fire dragon squad to guarantee 5 melta 1 lance shot against no ion shield. Then the other dragons deploy in cover, while their raider goes to the council.
The autarch can start with the council or with the reavers. for abalative wounds and challenge protection.

* Thanks for the advice on the powers, I do understand that a lot depends on the match up. I guess my next question is what powers should I fish for always, and on whom. for example shadowseers fish for Mirror of minds. Gate of Infinity is mucho important. I think those are the big 2 that I need to hunt for.

Lastly how would you change it? the challenge is null deploy, psychic deathstar list.

P.S. I have a Footdar list I will post later that should be fun.
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PostSubject: Re: The (freakless) Show 1850   Wed Feb 22 2017, 20:48

Mirror of minds is good for killing single models, psychic shriek is better for killing groups of models. You want both.

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PostSubject: Re: The (freakless) Show 1850   Wed Feb 22 2017, 21:39

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Mirror of minds is good for killing single models, psychic shriek is better for killing groups of models. You want both.

oh agreed, Shriek is easy to get though, it is a primaris power. I was talking about the power I have to fish for.
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PostSubject: Re: The (freakless) Show 1850   Thu Feb 23 2017, 02:45

Fish for Mirror. If you don't get it on the first roll, then take your second roll on Telepathy and sacrifice for Shriek.
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Dalamar
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PostSubject: Re: The (freakless) Show 1850   Thu Feb 23 2017, 02:58

@Jimsolo wrote:
Fish for Mirror. If you don't get it on the first roll, then take your second roll on Telepathy and sacrifice for Shriek.

or do i keep rolling knowing that i will get shriek on a farseer. Ican only cast it once per unit.
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PostSubject: Re: The (freakless) Show 1850   Thu Feb 23 2017, 04:03

Quote :
* first off why do i have warriors? Because they are the cheapest troop we get and I'm already points starved.

They're an OK option but you have to look at what you could be using instead. If you drop the Raiders you could replace both of these with scatbikes.

Quote :
* wraithknight? 1. I don't own one. 2. this army is already points starved and model count light. what would you replace for the wraithknight?

I would replace the Aspect Host with the d-cannon Wraithknight.

Quote :
* part of the build is null deploy. you need the autarch or risk losing at end of turn 1. can't have a comms relay.

The Autarch is "okay" but if you want to use that Seer Council you *need* psychic dice, and both he and the Archon provide none.

Quote :
* there are deployment options for this army. if they have a knight i attach the Archon to one fire dragon squad to guarantee 5 melta 1 lance shot against no ion shield. Then the other dragons deploy in cover, while their raider goes to the council.
The autarch can start with the council or with the reavers. for abalative wounds and challenge protection.

The Reavers stick out like a sore thumb. There's not enough of them to be much of a threat and for less points you could have scatbikes OR Shining Spears which would be doing essentially the same thing but more reliably. Since you have an Archon with a webway portal anyway you should trade the Fire Dragons for Wraithguard with the stock d-cannons. They're more effective and operate at the same range. Throw in a Shadowseer with veil and nothing will be able to shoot at them unless you're already close enough to nuke them.

Quote :
Lastly how would you change it? the challenge is null deploy, psychic deathstar list.

A good null deploy psychic deathstar? Drop the scatbikes from the Ulthwe detachment and run only war walkers. Give them scatter lasers and bright lances to taste and keep them at a good range. Run scatbikes as your troops in the Ynnari detachment with Eldrad (I think they can take him?) since you're apparently running a footslogging Seer Council. Shove a Shadowseer in there too with the Mask of Secrets for Fearless and leadership. Drop the entire Aspect Host and the Reavers and the Raiders, you don't need them. Give the Archon a CCW of some sort, haywire grenades, a shadowfield, and a webway portal. Armor if Misery too if you're feeling adventurous. I would add a Wraithknight, but you said you ain't got one, so idk. If you're worried about stuff not coming on bring a Vaul's Support Battery, hide it in terrain, and attach Eldrad to it. Have Eldrad roll Diviniation and hope for Scrier's, and there you have your reserve manipulation. It's not "null deploy" that way I know but it's a nice option and besides you could always walk the 60ish points of artillery on the board Razz

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PostSubject: Re: The (freakless) Show 1850   Thu Feb 23 2017, 04:41

@Dalamar wrote:
@Jimsolo wrote:
Fish for Mirror. If you don't get it on the first roll, then take your second roll on Telepathy and sacrifice for Shriek.

or do i keep rolling knowing that i will get shriek on a farseer. Ican only cast it once per unit.

Stay on Phantasmancy if the Shadowseer will be in a unit with a Farseer. Otherwise pick up Shriek.
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