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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 08:25

Since for the most part cross aeldari transports are back (looking at you grotesques in starweavers) what are peoples thoughts on good combinations?

FA
Venom
Raider
Starweaver
Wave Serpent

HS
Falcon

Am I missing anything? It's really a shame that almost everything is FA. Though I suppose it does mean you're army is going to need those transports.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 09:13

Obvious ones are Wraithguard in Raiders, Fire Dragons in Venoms (or Starweavers). If you're taking an Aspect Host then it's worth considering Wave Serpents as DT's for the +1BS, although you won't necessarily want or need the unit to start in them.

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 09:32

I still argue you can't start in a mixed faction transport though obviously embarking T1 is still a thing.

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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 09:39

@Massaen wrote:
I still argue you can't start in a mixed faction transport though obviously embarking T1 is still a thing.

Argue all you want but unless and until it is expressly forbidden then I'm doing it as it seems to fall squarely within the rules.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 09:40

Agreed.
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mightydoughnut
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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 10:12

If your unit is a part of the new Ynnari Reborn Warhost, then the models are treated as Ynnari, any mix is unimportant in the latter part of the unit, so you can freely take them. Transports are good and fun, but the most reliable transportation device here is an Deldar Archon/Succubi with a WWP. Non-scattering wraithguard 2' away from the enemy? Yes please.

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 10:54

We had this discussion locally, and the bad interpretation for Aeldari was popular - i.e. Raider has Faction Dark Eldar, so a battle brothers unit such as Wraithguard can't start embarked.

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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 11:08

@Kantalla wrote:
We had this discussion locally, and the bad interpretation for Aeldari was popular - i.e. Raider has Faction Dark Eldar, so a battle brothers unit such as Wraithguard can't start embarked.

The thing to argue is that both of them have faction 'Ynnari', so they're not Battle Brothers at all. They're both Ynnari. Unpopular or not, that's the way the rule is written.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 11:15

Are they the same Faction? Yes, they are both Ynnari. They may have other factions as well but they are absolutely, explicitly, both Ynnari faction.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 13:57

Indeed.
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 15:05

It's not only a rule twist. It's fluff-wise what they intended. Eldars from any factions joined the new "reborn" faction. So its perfectly logical to see eldars in raiders and wyches in wave serpent. Altough, since they are used to their own kind of transport, they would tend to prefer the ones from their own codex. But I'm fine with it.

But it remind me the good ol' joke one said here: "I travelled with a craftworlder once. Worst day ever. He was all "wah wah wah, you created a chaos god that will eat our soul. Wah wah wah stop skining my face". Very displeasant. "
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 16:11

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Are they the same Faction? Yes, they are both Ynnari. They may have other factions as well but they are absolutely, explicitly, both Ynnari faction.

Are they the same faction? No, they are DE and CWE respectively. They may have other factions as well but they are absolutely, explicitly, different factions

Both statements are true Rolling Eyes

Allies only cares about units - not detachments - so being in the same detachment means nothing.

I still say unless both factions match then they are not the same faction.

I hope I am proven wrong with an FAQ mind you!

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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 16:14

@Massaen wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
Are they the same Faction? Yes, they are both Ynnari. They may have other factions as well but they are absolutely, explicitly, both Ynnari faction.

Are they the same faction? No, they are DE and CWE respectively. They may have other factions as well but they are absolutely, explicitly, different factions

Both statements are true Rolling Eyes

Allies only cares about units - not detachments - so being in the same detachment means nothing.

I still say unless both factions match then they are not the same faction.

I hope I am proven wrong with an FAQ mind you!

So, the key would be in the wording for deploying in transports.

Does the wording explicitly prevent units of differing factions deploying in their transports, or does the wording explicitly allow units that share the same faction to deploy in each others' transports?

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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 16:20

From the FAQ...

Q: Can units that are Battle Brothers embark in each other’s Transport vehicles during deployment?
A: No.

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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 16:22

Hmmm, interesting. RAW in isolation that would specifically prevent CWE getting in Raiders. Despite the fact that they share a faction, they are also Battle Brothers by dint of also being CWE and DE.

What does the BRB say about it? Apologies, I don't have a copy myself...

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 16:25

Also from the FAQ:

Q: Can units from two Detachments with the same Faction embark in each other’s Transport vehicles during deployment?
A: Yes.

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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 16:27

Yup - so a farseer from a CWE cad can embark a wave serpent from a CWE war host.

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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 16:29

The brb says that " the allies matrix below shows the levels of alliance between units that have different factions in the same army"


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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 16:29

Or a Farseer from a Reborn Warhost detachment can start the game embarked on a Raider from a Reborn Warhost detachment as they both have the Ynnari faction.

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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 16:32

So units that have different factions in the same army use the allies rules...

I genuinely think that unless an FAQ changes it, you can't start embarked with eldar on DE transports and vice versa. You have different factions so you apply the allies rules.

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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 16:33

You also have the same faction, so you don't need to.

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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 16:34

The thing is count - you may start embarked but you may never start embarked when you apply both FAQ rulings and use the brb.

We simply don't have a firm resolution to this question as we have never had multi faction models before!

That said - a must always over rules a may...

You may embark but you must not embark...

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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 16:36

The BRB has nothing to prevent embarking at all. In fact it's very specifically allowed in the Battle Brother entry. This problem is entirely a product of the FAQ (which should have been errata as they changed the rules).

Even after the FAQ, it still worked okay but with the addition of, as far as I am aware, the first multi-faction units in 40k, it contradicts itself.

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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 16:38

Exactly!

The reason I lean on the side of caution and say you can't is that nothing in the game requires you to start embarked, while we do have a rule that says we can't start embarked.

Essentially one is optional while the other is not

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PostSubject: Re: Transports   Tue Feb 21 2017, 16:51

Well with both the rulebook and one of the FAQ entries allowing it, in the name of democracy, I say go for it!

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