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 Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks

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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Thu Feb 16 2017, 21:40

Just a thought I had for a Freakshow idea, made easier by the ease with which you can now access Shadowseers.

If you've got a squad with multiple Shadowseers/Farseers/Spiritseers, could you get into range of the enemy, detach all your ICs but one from the squad and then Psychic Shriek multiple times before piling everyone into combat?

Is that how psychic freakshows are normally run?

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Vlad
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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Thu Feb 16 2017, 21:45

Can you not psychic shriek multiple times from the same unit?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Thu Feb 16 2017, 21:54

@Vlad wrote:
Can you not psychic shriek multiple times from the same unit?

Nope. It's always been that way in the rules but some people had difficulty grasping the bold text that said "no unit can attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per Psychic phase" so GW ended up having to confirm in the FAQ that they did indeed mean exactly what they wrote.


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Vlad
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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Thu Feb 16 2017, 21:57

Ah OK thanks for the explanation. Apologies for the "rookie" questions, I've only recently got back into playing!
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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Thu Feb 16 2017, 22:32

Wait... whaaaat?

How do psychic shriek deathstars typically function, then? Or were they just recently invalidated by this FAQ?
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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Thu Feb 16 2017, 22:34

Yeah that's what I was trying to circumvent. If you split off the ICs then you can Shriek once with each of those, plus the original unit if one of them stays behind.

Don't worry about asking questions like that Smile better you find out now than have a ploy you were relying on during a game not work.

Oh, and presumably psychic deathstars either manifest different killy powers with each psyker (if you've got enough you can probably roll for a number of different shooty powers). Either that or do the IC split thing.

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Vlad
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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Thu Feb 16 2017, 22:38

@Ynneadwraith that's a good point! Whilst on the topic, there are a couple of what look like decent leadership based psychic powers in the Harlequins book, would they be any good as replacements for psychic shriek? Or does psychic shriek work better in your experience?
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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Thu Feb 16 2017, 22:54

Not a clue I'm afraid :S I'll have to defer to the more experienced players here. Looking at it from where I am though, the main benefit of Psychic Shriek is you can be guaranteed to get it as it's a Primaris, and it can cause quite a high number of wounds. Oh, and it doesn't need to roll to hit which is nice for a witchfire Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Thu Feb 16 2017, 22:55

Seems like you would have to rely on something like Laugh of Sorrows as a second "shriek" replacement if trying for a Freakshow/Ld-debuff list, then. It's not a bad power, I guess -- it's just annoying that it's warp charge 2 and by no means a guaranteed pick-up on a ML2 psyker.

Or, I suppose you could always just try to run a bunch of telepathy shadowseers in different squads. That might be the best way to do it.
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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Thu Feb 16 2017, 23:03

Meh I guess the benefit of psychic shriek is like you said, no need to roll to hit and guaranteed to get
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Thu Feb 16 2017, 23:26

If a single model is being held at LD4 it is auto-killed by Mirror of Minds.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Fri Feb 17 2017, 00:08

People either go for different powers, or put additional sources of shriek in other units. I've never seen someone split ICs off from their deathstar to cast multiple shrieks. In most cases, the ICs that have shriek are too expensive to be so cavalier as to leave them outside of a unit.

Not saying it wouldn't ever work. It's an idea that has some merit. You'd just have to plan your list to not depend on using it precisely that way every time. Essentially, against lists where that wouldn't work, have something else for them to do, different units for them to join, etc.

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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Fri Feb 17 2017, 01:32

I usually only run one Telepathy psyker in an army. I usually try to have each psyker on a different discipline, to maximize my spread of powers. (Typically, I wind up with Telepathy, Fate, Battle, and often Sanctic and the Corsair one that's slipping my mind right now.)

I have strongly considered taking multiple Shadowseers and having each one lead a different unit. If they upgrade to ML2, they can take Psychic Shriek and Veil of Tears, which is a pretty brutal combination.

In the past, the most I've ever run is two characters with Shriek, but they were in different units. (I've experimented with different Freakshow builds in the time since I started, but the best build I've found so far has been a Seer Council formation with some debuffs coming from the rest of the army.) Multiple smaller knots of psychic chicanery might be a good way to go with this new book out.

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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Fri Feb 17 2017, 16:45

I think I'm going to try one main leadership bomb, and smaller support bombs. I will have as many shadowseers as I can fit, and fish for Mirror of Minds. as soon as I get it, that model goes into my main bomb then the rest to telepathy for one roll and Phantasmancy once.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Fri Feb 17 2017, 22:06

I've run with 3 different sources of Psychic Shriek before, typically a Shadowseer embedded in my main unit and 2 Farseers flying around with some Windriders. Being able to Shriek and turbo-boost on the same turn can be rather useful.

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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Fri Feb 17 2017, 22:36

For Psychic Shriek bombs I've always been a fan of the Hemlock Wraithfighter as a secondary source since it can use its witchfire at a different target than its d-scythes and can be just about anywhere it needs to be. As for running one big unit with several Shrieks though I can't say I've ever done it or seen it done, you're relying on too much of a shell game IMO.

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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Fri Feb 17 2017, 23:10

I second both Count Adhemar and TeenageAngst here.
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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Sat Feb 18 2017, 00:29

@TeenageAngst wrote:
For Psychic Shriek bombs I've always been a fan of the Hemlock Wraithfighter as a secondary source since it can use its witchfire at a different target than its d-scythes and can be just about anywhere it needs to be. As for running one big unit with several Shrieks though I can't say I've ever done it or seen it done, you're relying on too much of a shell game IMO.

Do you have much luck with the d scythes? I never seem to.
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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Sat Feb 18 2017, 03:10

They're about a 50/50. From my experience with it though, people tend to sleep on it, it's surprisingly effective with its shriek, it can be anywhere it needs to, and it's fantastic when used in conjunction with scatbikes. Just fly it over their intended target, use the scatbikes as a turret from long range, and force a couple leadership checks with a -2 penalty. It makes Tau players cry.

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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Sat Feb 18 2017, 04:45

I'm definitely a big fan of it for the additional Shriek (and potential other powers), as well as the -2 Ld bubble. I just haven't had great luck with the Scythes.

I don't use them super often though, so my observation size is small enough that it could just be coincidence.
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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Sat Feb 18 2017, 05:25

I think I designed a list once that had 10 psychic shriek spiritseers in it. With the Iyanden supplement(which GW has said is still official), you can take 5 spiritseers per HQ slot.

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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Sat Feb 18 2017, 14:03

How did it work? That's one of the possibilities I included in the first Freakshow article, but I never had a chance to try it out.
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PostSubject: Re: Detaching ICs to make use of multiple Psychic Shrieks   Sat Feb 18 2017, 17:03

I designed it before the freakshow was a thing, back when we had different methods of applying leadership penalties in our old codex.

So I guess you could say I was doing the freakshow before freakshowing was cool. Wink

I never ran it. Shortly after theorycrafting the list, our new codex released, and it altered the things we could use so drastically that it made that specific list invalid. That said, I think that list might have actually been the one that won me my banner.

Until the ynneade release, I was of the opinion that "freakshow" lists were actually easier to pull off, and more effective with our old codex, before the actual 'freakshow" rule was invented. We still had things to apply leadership penalties to people, but our array of leadership-based weapons was more formidable. The old anti-psyker item was actually really good when combined with leadership penalties, because every psyker in range had to roll a successful leadership test or just be completely removed from play. It averaged a range of 10.5 inches, so that creates about a 22 inch circle around the user.

While I still miss our old stuff, I am pretty excited about the possibilities with the Ynnari.

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