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 Ynnead's net

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Wed Apr 05 2017, 07:33

I have no idea, I'd just ask the TO before you play. And if you're playing with your friends just ask them.

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lelith
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Wed Apr 05 2017, 08:45

I think that's not possible, but at the same time cannot provide why it's not possible...:$ It may require cross-ref checks.

If it was possible though, there would be a variety of horrible combos available IMO.

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Wed Apr 05 2017, 09:23

@amorrowlyday wrote:
At the end of the day I think the best answer is meh.

Anyway, can I get some opinions on whether or not you can attach IC's to the formation while in reserves? Intuition pump says No, but I recall some people saying yes, but without justifications. Thoughts?

I don't run this formation because I run character heavy.

No you cant - because of the way it deploys. It uses a special rule and the FAQ says characters don't get formation special rules

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Wed Apr 05 2017, 20:54

@Massaen wrote:
@amorrowlyday wrote:
At the end of the day I think the best answer is meh.

Anyway, can I get some opinions on whether or not you can attach IC's to the formation while in reserves? Intuition pump says No, but I recall some people saying yes, but without justifications. Thoughts?

I don't run this formation because I run character heavy.

No you cant - because of the way it deploys. It uses a special rule and the FAQ says characters don't get formation special rules

This. Units that aren't in a formation can't benefit from formation special rules, so they wouldn't be able to arrive from reserves when the others do.

That said, to play devil's advocate here, a formation that grants models within it a USR that confers to the entire unit, such as "fearless", essentially does the exact same thing, and I've never heard of anyone arguing against a model that got such a USR from a formation being able to join a unit that wasn't from that formation.

So there is likely a bit of a double-standard at work here as to what fits the definition of "benefit from a formation special rule".

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Wed Apr 05 2017, 22:03

Precedent has been that special deployments or non-USR special rules granted by a formation won't confer to an IC.

I would say that you could in fact join an IC to a Ynnead's Net unit, but it wouldn't gain the benefit of the special rules, meaning it would not automatically come in when the formation did, and could only come in from any board edge it would normally be able to.

The other possible interpretation is that you just can't attach an IC to any unit in the formation.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Wed Apr 05 2017, 22:41

Yeah, I don't have the wording of the special rule in front of me, but if the formation says they "DO" come on automatically, it's different from "may". The latter, you could do as you propose, while the former would forbid it if it stopped them from being able to follow their rule.

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Thu Apr 06 2017, 08:04

It's a must

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Thu Apr 06 2017, 17:39

But, if you aren't gaining the benefit of the rule, do/must is irrelevant; the rule doesn't apply to you.

That's RAW, but I can see people interpreting it the other way.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Thu Apr 06 2017, 18:22

Technically, RAW would be the opposite. You're right in that "Must" wouldn't apply to a unit not in the formation, but you said have the IC join them and just not use the rule. They can't allow that IC to do that if they "must" use their OWN rule, because an IC without it would prevent them from using it, which would break their own rules.

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WildCandy
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Fri Apr 07 2017, 07:47

Could IC join the unit that comes from your own table edge? This would of course mean that you'd predetermined 1/4 units approach sector.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Fri Apr 07 2017, 17:19

You mean if the IC is already on the table, and wants to join them on the turn they arrive from reserves? Sure he could. I don't know how useful that'd be, though.

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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Sat Apr 15 2017, 16:20

I feel like this is being discussed innacurately.  Mostly due to what seems to be a misunderstanding of what allows Ynnead's Net to deploy as it does.

"The Net is Cast" is the formation Special Rule that allows Ynnead's net to deploy from four seperate table edges.

The whole formation gets one reserves roll that must be taken each turn from turn 2 onwards, you do not get a choice in this.

It can be rerolled, whether it is a success or a failure.  You do get a choice in this.

All four Units must enter, and each must do so from a seperate table edge, including your opponent's.  You do not get a choice in this.

This does present interesting possibilities in games of irregular table shape or Apoc scenarios in which the 'table' is a series of multiple connected tables.  Potentially giving us five or six table edges, thus giving us further choice in where we deploy from.

There is nothing that forbids an IC from joining a Unit with "The Net is Cast".  There is preexisting Ruling that states the IC would not benefit from "The Net is Cast".  To me, this means that the IC cannot enter the table from some fifth table edge as described in the 'irregular table' scenario above.
It can, however, tag along with a Unit that deploys from this table edge.

Although this could easily be considered a benefit flower, and is undoubtedly due to this Special Rule, the Independent Character is not actually benefiting from the "The Net is Cast" Special Rule scratch.  It is not deploying in the same manner that a Unit with "The Net is Cast" deploys, it is deploying alongside one that is already doing so.

Agreements, counterarguments and people pointing out things I may have missed are appreciated.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Sat Apr 15 2017, 16:25

As far as I'm concerned your examining the wrong benefit. I think it fails far earlier than that. IC's do not roll seperately, because of that you are necessarily extending the formation benefit of a single formationwide roll which you may not do as you pointed out.
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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Sat Apr 15 2017, 16:27

Hadn't thought of that angle.

I think you're correct here.

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