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Mononcule
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PostSubject: Ynnead's net   Mon Feb 13 2017, 18:26

The more I think about it the more I like this formation in synergy with the Yncarne. The only tax is the warlock, but he is only 50pts and will generate warp charges for the Yncarne.  

Deploying on 4 different table edges is very versatile: for example you can place the lone warlock in your zone to generate ~1-3 charges every turn, you can place a big sqad of squatbikes behind juicy targets, and with turboboost the reavers and skyweavers (you can take the ones that reroll jink) can move close to the squatbikes, or even better between them and the opponent to prevent a charge.

If you opponent kill one of these units, the squatbikes gets a free shooting round and you can spawn the Yncarne, giving all the remaining bikes fnp and fearless. Its even better if he kills one of the unit in assault: then the Yncarne cant be shot this turn and will charge the offending unit at your turn.

All the bikes are aeldari so they will provide healing for the Yncarne. All the bike units will be glad to soulburst. For this strategy I would use MSU for the warlock, the reavers and the skyweavers, but a bigger units for the squatbikes.

I would take a Autarch as the Host HQ.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Mon Feb 13 2017, 18:40

Unfortunately, Ynnead's Net isn't a Harlequins formation, it's a Ynnari one, so the Blades of Fate aren't allowed.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Mon Feb 13 2017, 19:57

They wouldn't get soul burst if they're on opposite ends of the table, and if you move them close together, why not deploy those bikes that way to begin with.

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Mononcule
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Mon Feb 13 2017, 21:24

Good point for the Ynnai formation.

The point deploying squatterbikes in the best table edge to give them the best angle for shooting to shoot on rear armor or units behind blos. Reavers and harlies can turboboost to join them.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Mon Feb 13 2017, 21:51

The Warlocks aren't great and the Skyweavers are definitely not a favorite. I don't see a competitive way to use this formation.
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Tue Feb 14 2017, 01:46

Harlie bikes are fantastic in my experience! I love mine. Hand them glaives and away you go. They are probably 10 to 15 points to expensive but I still find them very solid.

The warlocks I think would need to be run in a very aggressive fashion. Ideally using singing spears and rear armour. 3-4 of them should suffice. Alternately, run the single and use him to lurk about, generate warp charge (RAW its 2 per turn!) and claim line breaker/objectives with his turbo move

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PsychicHobo
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Wed Feb 15 2017, 01:03

Well, 2 table edges are going to see anything with a low rear armour value shredded to pieces with S6, and the Reavers can at least spray some poison around at anything else. So could work pretty well, providing you take care.

Plus, could be a good opportunity to try out those plasma cannon style bolas on the Starweavers...
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Mononcule
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Wed Feb 15 2017, 01:20

Exactly, as you can deploys the skyweavers on ANY border, it looks like the best opportunity to test those 12" range star bolas: you can virtually throw them anywhere on the battlefield.

You can also put a heat lance of the reavers.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Wed Feb 15 2017, 03:16

I completely disagree with you guys. This will be a good formation, and may even see competitive play. Every unit in it is good (highly mobile, not too expensive, high damage output, good survivability). You get re-rollable reserves. Additional warp charges.

The only 2 things that would make this formation better are turn 1 arrival, and charge after arrival. As it is, the formation is a great addition to Beta strike armies, or any sort of DS/psykic themed list.

You would need to build around it, but it can certainly do work.
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Tounguekutter
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Wed Feb 15 2017, 03:59

I agree with fisheyes that the formation could be effective, and honestly I think the most effective way to do it would be to run 2 of them. That way squads can better support each other and you'll have more bikes in your opponent's face to alpha-strike and take advantage of Soulburst. Filling troop slots can be easily done with either moar bikes (CWE) or Venom/Raider/Kabalite spam. I believe that you'll need to take multiple Reborn detachments though because each Ynnari formation takes up the same amount of slots in detachment right? And with 2 formations you'll have 4 Fast Attack choices hence the need for 2 CADs. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this though.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Wed Feb 15 2017, 04:25

NO.

Sorry, that's just been misread and repeated to a rather bad degree on here lately. A formation is a formation. period. They do not cross over. The units that make it up do not exist outside it. They take up 1 formation slot in the Reborn Warhost of which you have an infinite amount. The existing in both language in the header for the section is a standard paragraph in every decurion that when distilled down amounts to: members of formations contained within get their formation rules and the detachments rules. That's it.
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Wed Mar 15 2017, 14:54

May I share my experience for this formation? It was my first game with Ynnari as well as the net, so please consider I made a few strategical mistakes.

1 warlock - coming from the opponent's table edge, he killed a marine with a psychic power (Revenant primaris) and penetrated a razorback with the spear but that's all. He's got easily killed in the next turn.

3 windriders (scatter laser) - coming from the opponent's left edge, they wrecked the whirlwind squadron from the rear armor and also killed a few devastators using the soulburst, but then was wiped out by the retaliation fire.

3 skyweavers (bolas & shuriken) - coming from the opponent's right edge, the best performer on the day. My opponent (he used the gladius) made most of his marines disembark for the previous turn in order to kill my shrouded solitaire and harlequins, and BOOM! Three on-hit bolas literally erased most of them. They then soulbursted to shoot the rear armor of another razorback, making it immobilized.

6 reavers (2 caltrops, agonizer on the champ) - sadly they did nothing impressive in this game. T2 they shot some splinters, most of which were saved by my opponent. T3 they multiple-charged but both caltrops rolled 'one' for their D6 HoW attack. At the end of T4 they managed to kill the grav team, but then I surrendered as I had few units to crack his ObSec vehicles (at least five as I remember).


All in all, the formation was fun to play and had some potential. The problem that I felt was, (1) the lack of numbers especially against the gladius and (2) the lack of ObSec, as well, against the gladius. I lost like 2:14 or so for this game.

For the honor of Ynnari though, more than half of the lost would originate from my fault Wink I'm gonna test two net formations (all MSU 8 units) against the same opponent this weekend.



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Mononcule
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Sat Mar 18 2017, 13:24

Awesome, thanks for sharing. This is defitively a formation that I want to experiment with different unit size.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Sat Mar 18 2017, 17:50

I play this formation and its really good. Especially against Tau and SM with rang

I take the Skyweavers with HWC and Bolas. 4 blasts the turn they come in and dont need to jink to get there is really nice.

Reavers are 6man with x2 HL's and Caltrops.

3 Windriders with Shuriken (Dont need the extra 3 shots if hitting back vehicles and if hitting Marines or Tau I want the Rending).

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Sun Mar 19 2017, 11:04

I just had my second game with the Ynnari army (I used two net formations this time) against the same UM Gladius.

Today I tried to exploit the soulburst as much as possible, which led to a HUGE success.

My opponent brought three drop pods, five razorbacks, and two whirlwinds; six of them was wrecked (one of which was exploded) by my jetbikes in T2. Most of my units then soulbursted to shoot other things.

The bonuses from the Reborn Host Detachment also worked very well with the net formation. One nullified the risk of 3D6" running (y'know for the most case losing an Eldar bike calls a morale check), while another assisted in the entire-army soulbursting.

The Yncarne - I know it's been debating in another thread but I don't wanna duplicate my article - was not so impressive sadly. Well, at least she casted Revenant #5 to make my melta-wielding autarch blow up the drop pod on an objective.

The following is the battlefield after the end of my T2 when two net formations arrived:

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Sun Mar 19 2017, 15:09

My 3rd game was against Drop Pod MSU army too and Ynnari isnt far against that army honestly.

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Tue Apr 04 2017, 13:13

Another sharing experience. I had a game with a different Tau player last weekend and his interceptors ruined my day :X

Four of eight bike units were erased as soon as they came to the battlefield in T2 by his drones & battlesuits. This led to lack of soulburst-induced firepower at the moment that the net army should have been the strongest. (He brilliantly withered the whole army at the same time to minimize the soulburst)

That's the biggest counter I've found so far against the Ynnead's net army.

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Tue Apr 04 2017, 19:04

Jimsolo wrote:
Unfortunately, Ynnead's Net isn't a Harlequins formation, it's a Ynnari one, so the Blades of Fate aren't allowed.

I'm not sure this is 100% accurate. I believe GW ruled that models inside a Ynnari army are considered both their home faction, AND Ynnari. I know at least SOME tournaments are playing that Ynnari detachments, therefore, are both Ynnari AND the faction of their home units, which bars them from taking the properly named "Allied Detachment" of something like Eldar, Harlies, or DE, since it would violate the rule of the "Allied Detachment" that says it may not be the same as your primary detachment. I wanted to use the "Allied Detachment" from the BRB for a list I was building, so the distinction became important and I had to ask 2 seperate tournaments. Both have ruled that I couldn't use the "Allied Detachment" from the BRB to ally in Eldar with a Ynnari primary detachment that included Eldar.

So basically, any tournament that rules this way(presumably to limit the power/versatility of Ynnari armies) also gives the Ynnari access to the special Harlequins characters in formations like Ynnead's net.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Tue Apr 04 2017, 21:10

Phonetics says it's an ynnari because of the open vowel. A home vs an homage.

Real point: for what they are discussing that wrinkle isn't relevant. The FAQ explicitly states that they can only be taken as part of a harlequin formation and defines what that means, when you couple that with the fact that as of right now formations only have 1 faction even if their constituent units have multiple factions then every thing works together properly ruleswise, albeit excepting the allied detachment kerfluffle.

To recap: Ynneads net as a formation is only ynnari while it's units are eldar de harlequin and ynnari, and a cast of players with Inriams specter is a harlequins formation containing units that are ynnari and harlequins by virtue of the reborn war host.

Nothing has given us permission to change the faction designation of the formations as macro level pieces, merely the units contained within.
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Tue Apr 04 2017, 21:25

amorrowlyday wrote:
Phonetics says it's an ynnari because of the open vowel. A home vs an homage.

If you pronounce 'Ynnari' and its descendants with a vowel 'Y,' (or EE-nahr-EE).

I pronounce it with a hard 'y,' as in 'yes.' (Yin-ah-ree, Yin-ee-add)

I'll have to go check the book to see which version GW went with.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Tue Apr 04 2017, 21:36

amorrowlyday wrote:
Ynneads net as a formation is only ynnari

But it's not if they're considering the faction of a formation to be the faction of it's constituent parts. The problem is that in the past, models in any given formation were all from the same faction.

If anyone chooses to rule against allowing you to use an allied Aeldari(any eldar type) "Allied detachment" due to them sharing a faction with a Ynnari detachment/formation(because it's considered both Ynnari and X faction), it's the exact same logic that makes Ynnead's Net both Ynnari and a harlequin formation. So it's one way or the other. It can't be both.

amorrowlyday wrote:
Phonetics says it's an ynnari because of the open vowel. A home vs an homage.

I've seen people pronouncing "Ynnari" in both of these ways, which would each use a different a/an precurser:

Yen - are - ee
En - are - ee

Since I've seen GW employees use both pronounciations, I have no idea which one is "correct", and thus I tend to use "a" or "an" interchangebly with them. Since it's a proper name and therefore subject to the pronunciation leanings of it's writer, the correct way to pronounce it is: "Who knows?"

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Tue Apr 04 2017, 21:44

Edited previous post substantially.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Tue Apr 04 2017, 21:55

And here I've been pronouncing it ya-nair-ee

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Wed Apr 05 2017, 06:19

I think the correct answer is that no matter what, our filthy monkeigh tongue is getting it wrong.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnead's net   Wed Apr 05 2017, 06:28

At the end of the day I think the best answer is meh.

Anyway, can I get some opinions on whether or not you can attach IC's to the formation while in reserves? Intuition pump says No, but I recall some people saying yes, but without justifications. Thoughts?

I don't run this formation because I run character heavy.


Last edited by amorrowlyday on Wed Apr 05 2017, 07:34; edited 1 time in total
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