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 Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:42 am

@amorrowlyday wrote:
I think Aurynn's presumption is probably accurate for precisely the reason your suggesting it isn't though: It is a permissive ruleset. We are only given permission to do what we are explicitly given permission to do, it just so happens that one of those permissions is brokenly open ended RAW. It explicitly gives me permission to have an extra unit soul burst, it doesn't give me permission to trigger power from death a second time.

No, I totally get that. If all we had to work from is what the book says, I'd completely agree. But what I was saying is that I believe GW has stated in a FAQ somewhere that detachment/formation rules only effect models from that detachment/formation unless the rule explicitly says otherwise. And this one does not.

I could be wrong though, which is why I was asking for help confirming or disproving that stance.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:42 am

The rule you are thinking of references Command Benefits specifically, which the rules of allaince are not. So I dunno how this one is going to get ruled.
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HokutoAndy
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:48 am

Wraithknights and wraithlords benefit from Soulburst and grant it right? Field them in pairs and march them down the middle of the table.

Wraithlords and fire dragons getting a soulburst off of the usual destruction they already wreck seems to be the most reliable trigger.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:06 am

Bring a Wraithknight, Scatbikes everywhere, run a Spiritseer, give someone The Wraithforge Stone (FAQ legalized this), bring a Seer Council, fish for Renewer, run a bunch of chaff units to tie people up in close combat like Banshies or Wyches, and use their deaths to daisy chain the Wraithknight/Seer Council where you need them? If your 2 wrecking crews are constantly getting healed up and are able to get procs you might be able to brute force through people.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:11 am

@Jimsolo wrote:
The rule you are thinking of references Command Benefits specifically, which the rules of allaince are not. So I dunno how this one is going to get ruled.

Well, the rule auryn an I are talking about IS a command benefit, unless you're talking to someone else. it's the command benefit called "Warhost of Yneade" listed under the heading "Command Benefits" of the "Reborn Warhost".

There are multiple discussions being had though, so maybe you're referring to a different conversation, or maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:01 am

My bad. I was referencing allies getting in transports.
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sumguy777
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:19 am

i dont understand whats going on with this post? the best thing to do is take wraithgaurds in raiders (raiders under fast attack or wwp) then with the raiders speed destroy them  letting the yucarne come in and destroy them.  support with reavers and 5 man venoms maybe a farseer as well.
i feel like the fire power and bouncing will cause serious issues.  unless im missing something this is prolly the bread and butter of the formation. the only other way i see to abuse it is with a close combat based leadership testing army


Last edited by sumguy777 on Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:20 am

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Well, the rule auryn an I are talking about IS a command benefit, unless you're talking to someone else. it's the command benefit called "Warhost of Yneade" listed under the heading "Command Benefits" of the "Reborn Warhost".

Mhm. BRB in Battle-Forged Armies:
Quote :
As a reward for adhering to these requirements, each Detachment grants its own Command Benefits to the units within it, which can really enhance their effectiveness in battle.

Also BRB - Selecting Detachments:
Quote :
Command Benefits
This lists any additional bonuses or special rules that apply to some, or all, of the units in this Detachment.

Also BRB - Command Benefits in FOCs and Slots:
Quote :
COMMAND BENEFITS
This section of the Detachment lists any special rules or benefits that apply to some or all of the models in that Detachment. For example, the units in a Combined Arms Detachment benefit from the Ideal Mission Commander and Objective Secured special rules.
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:26 am

One question. Probably not in the right place but hey ho. These rules seem interesting but don't do all that much to improve our basic shoddy codex. If you want to run a pure d.e. you are still buggered for competitiveness. Is this the best I can expect or is there the possibility of a new codex to improve our situation?


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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:28 am

Chance of a new codex given the DE is a 7th ed book is all but zero. Guard are still with a 6th as are Nids - both have had updates in campaign books... exactly like this book is!

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:38 am

I will repeat it again... pure DE army did place 8th on 2016 'Ardboyz. Which is probably the worst environment for DE as every kind of cheese is allowed and even encouraged there. And with the current meta that is actually balancing itself through the myriad of options, our position is getting even better. With the new rules of Ynnadi purely DE force got another step up. We do not need a new codex. We just need an internal rebalance of units like Hellions and arguably wyches. Both of which got a tactical bump with this book.

For me - the Soulburst is what PfP should have been from the start.
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:17 am

I want to avoid Eldar units
.
I'll try 2 Ynnari not CADs.
4 units of sslyth in raiders or venoms led by shadowseers.
Solitaire.
Min warriors in venoms for troops.
6 units 3-6 reavers with CC and a few blasters.

And a DE CAD for obsec.
Lam and venom.
Mandrakes
Warriors in venoms.
3 units of 3-6 reavers with CC and heatlances.

So basically a very fast MSU list with reaverspam + sslyth for grots + Obsec + psychics + lots of soulbursting. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:26 am

@Painjunky wrote:
I want to avoid Eldar units
.
I'll try 2 Ynnari not CADs.
4 units of sslyth in raiders or venoms led by shadowseers.
Solitaire.
Min warriors in venoms for troops.
6 units 3-6 reavers with CC and a few blasters.

And a DE CAD for obsec.
Lam and venom.
Mandrakes
Warriors in venoms.
3 units of 3-6 reavers with CC and heatlances.

So basically a very fast MSU list with reaverspam + sslyth for grots + Obsec + psychics + lots of soulbursting. cheers

Please tell us how it went with batrep! I also want to try sslyth with shadowseers: a unit that benefits both from shooting and charge.
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:35 am

Can someone explain to me why you can't apply Soulburst to an embarked unit please?  I'm obviously missing something.  People keep mentioning "on the table", but I can't see that anywhere in the Ynnari rules at all ... page number please?

Also, I assume I can't take a Raider as a dedicated transport for a unit of Fire Dragons? I have to take the Raider as a Fast Attack and then just deploy in it?
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:02 am

The FAQ requires models be on the table (not embarked) to trigger rules unless the rule specifically allows it while embarked

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:21 am

Exactly. Unit cannot use special rules while embarked since they are considered that they are not on board. This has been FAQed.

And you are right about the Fire Dragons and Raider.
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:22 am

Thanks Smile
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PFI
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:52 pm

Hey just be careful when making a reborn warhost army. The rules for ynnari say they keep both their factions, not just replace it with ynnari, so a dark eldar warrior in that detachment is both ynnari and dark eldar. This is important for allying.

The rules say under the restrictions of an ally detachment that you can't have a unit in your ally detachment that has the same faction as a unit in your primary. Therefore say you wanted to ally in some grotesques, something that the reborn warhost doesn't have. For you to take a dark eldar ally detachment to play those groteques, you cannot have a single dark eldar model in the reborn warhost.

same if you are running a farseerin your reborn warhost, and want to ally in some objective secured jetbikes from cwe ally. You couldn't do this RAW
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:11 pm

I don't know a single player who uses the allied detachment these days... Running a cad or formation is much easier.

Want grots? Run a DE cad or a Grotesquerie... Job done!

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:12 pm

In that case the grotesguerie is not an ally detachment, but a formation.
You can add a formation to a detachment with the same faction. That's the point of the formations.
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:07 pm

My army list would be 3 reborn host detachments
#1
Lhamaean 10
3 scatter bikes 81
3 scatter bikes 81
3 scatter bikes 81
3 scatter bikes 81
3 scatter bikes 81
Wraithknight, 2 wraith cannons 295
=710

#2
Lhamaean 10
3 scatter bikes 81
3 scatter bikes 81
3 scatter bikes 81
3 scatter bikes 81
3 scatter bikes 81
Wraithknight, 2 wraith cannons 295
=710

#3
Lhamaean 10
Scatter bikes x3 81
Scatter bikes x3 81
Scatter bikes x3 81
Bikes x2 + 1 scatter laser bike 61
Venom dedicated transport extra Splinter Cannon 65
Warriors x 5, Sybarite 50
=429
429+710+710 = 1849

This army has 2 wraith knights,  40 scatter lasers and 1 Venom
Also all these are reborn warhost.  Each warhost numbering 7 models allows YOU (the player) to perform an extra soulburst.
Every unit you lose, you can trigger 4 Soulburst!!! Obviously both wraithknight and 2 units of 3 scatterbikes
That's EDITED. Also the 3rd detachment here is your primary, Sybarite is there to give you a warlord trait, go strategic.
Shoot anything and EVERYTHING off the board
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:14 pm

It works in theory... Right up until you hit an av13 wall

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:15 pm

You have 2 wraithknights that can both fire each time you lose a nearby jetbike squad. Plus what armor 13 walls do you know that are dominating tournaments like the LVO ?
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:17 pm

A WK is in no way reliable in killing multiple av13 targets... Knights for example. These lists can and will kill the WKs and be left with zero threats

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:22 pm

idk man, if the opponent is running enough knights, you could probably just surround them on both sides and go for glances. and if they are running even 3 imperial knights, without like 2 dev centurion squads, they aren't going to kill a wraithknight in 1 turn of shooting. Thatd be a very difficult thing for just a bunch of knights to do without getting in melee.

Would be a very neat match to play. The skill required to do it would show you went above and beyond just making a strong shooting list.


Last edited by PFI on Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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