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 Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions

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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Fri Feb 17 2017, 02:17

Finna revive this thread for one last question. Can Swooping Hawks deepstrike, shoot, kill, and pop off back to reserves from Soul Burst? And would that be a decent tactic at all?

Edit: their rules specify they can't go back if they arrived from reserves that turn, and I know their shooting isn't the best. Might be a decent choice if it's the turn after they arrived but that's assuming you're taking some in the first place.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Fri Feb 17 2017, 02:42

Swooping Hawks are underrated af. You can't pop off the turn they come on but you can seriously injure people with them with double-shooting.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Fri Feb 17 2017, 03:07

they would perform similarly to scourges, but AI rather than AT. I imagine they would work quite well in a Aspect Host all DS in the same area. Would also help deal with the crowded FA slot
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Fri Feb 17 2017, 06:11

Scourges and Hawks working in concert, now that's something I'd like to see.

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doriii
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Fri Feb 17 2017, 12:04

Something i noticed that i think hasnt been asked.

Is it legal to deep strike a unit, make it soulburst/charge on the same turn. Effectively that is the same question as with reavers turbo boosting then in the same turn charge.
Because it is stated in BRB that either deep striking or boosting specifically prohibits charging.

what are your thoughts on this? we need a FAQ already


EDIT: also, if you shoot unit 1 in your turn, kill it. can you assault unit 2 immediately?

EDITEDIT: Smile soulburst can occur once per turn per unit. is that player turn or game turn?
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Fri Feb 17 2017, 14:07

@dorii no I'm short. Soulburst does not permit you to break existing rules (i.e. Charge after deep strike). It only permits you to take additional actions out of sync with the normal turn.

I would say no you can't shoot at one unit and then charge another, same as my point above. However you could shoot one unit, kill it, soulburst, shoot another unit and if you don't kill it you can then assault it normally in the assault phase.

Soulburst states once per turn and in the rulebook it says that when not specified "turn" means player turn, so one Soulburst action per player turn!

Just my thoughts on it
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 19 2017, 18:06

Not sure if you guys already realized this or not, but a unit of scat bikes or reavers can easily soulburt out in front of units that are about to be charged to block the enemies since they weren't the target of the shooting attack.
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 19 2017, 18:07

Ooh, nice! That's a really great use of Soulburst!
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 19 2017, 18:15

Didnt think of this, very nice.

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 19 2017, 19:11

@lessthanjeff I like that...I like that a lot...
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 19 2017, 19:36

I think we now insta win any Relic missions.
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 19 2017, 19:47

Draco wrote:
I think we now insta win any Relic missions.

You can move it once per phase, but that means we can move it in the opponents turn Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 19 2017, 21:19

Ooh. That's dirty, too.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 19 2017, 21:23

So, I've been thinking about this a bit, and I think my swooping hawks might make a comeback.

They are uniquely able to deal damage in the movement phase, they have 18" movement, assault 3 weapons, 4+ armour, scatterless deepstrike, skyleap, and haywire grenades.

They are the swiss army knife of units, and can potentially attack 3 different units per turn if taken in a Reborn Warhost.

For 126 points, you can get 6 Swooping hawks, one of them being an Exarch w/Power Lance & Hawk's Talon. That means you can get an aspect host of them for 378 points, 2 hosts for 756.

With 6 units of BS5 Swooping hawks with BS6 Exarchs armed with Hawk's talons, these guys should be able to take out most vehicles when dropped in rear armour facings 2 Units at a time. Then, when the unit dies, they both get to fire again, firing 36 shots into infantry(that might have just evacuated the transport).

2 BS5 haywire grenades combined with 6 BS6 S5 shots should be able to pretty reliably take out a vehicle, and against most infantry they're pretty good as well. Only against terminators or MEQ with FnP are they not really that great.

And by giving them all a power lance as well, you enable them to make some pretty decent charges, with a terrifying 30" threat range! (18" move + 12" charge w/Fleet)

Thoughts? Anything I'm missing?

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 19 2017, 21:26

I thought their gun was S3.  Where are the S6 shots coming from?  (Am I using Swooping Hawks wrong?)

Edit:NVM. I caught up with you.
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 19 2017, 22:48

Can only use 1 Grenade in Shooting and 1 in melee

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 19 2017, 23:23

I thought he was talking about two units.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 19 2017, 23:30

@amishprn86 swooping hawks dont grenade like other units. They don't have grenades per se.

Never mind misread which action betray was discussing abusing
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Sun Feb 19 2017, 23:38

amorrowlyday wrote:
@amishprn86 swooping hawks dont grenade like other units. They don't have grenades per se.

Never mind misread which action betray was discussing abusing

I was just reminding everyone about the limitations of HWG on units in general. Nothing bad against the idea of using Swooping Hawks i have a unit and i might use them now time to time.

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Mon Feb 20 2017, 00:34

Yeah, I was talking about using 2 units of swooping hawks to kill a tank, then trigger a soulburst action on BOTH of them, since in the reborn warhost it works on 2 units instead of 1, then they can use their impressive amount of anti-infantry firepower to kill dudes, or if your opponent had vehicles close together, you could kill 2 vehicles a turn. The entire point is how flexible they are, and how the ability to shoot multiple times in a round synergizes very well with flexible units.

It basically means that if you come up against an opponent that has an extreme list, like all infantry or all vehicles, neither one is a bad matchup for you because your tools can be used either way.

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Mon Feb 20 2017, 00:53

lessthanjeff wrote:
Not sure if you guys already realized this or not, but a unit of scat bikes or reavers can easily soulburt out in front of units that are about to be charged to block the enemies since they weren't the target of the shooting attack.

Wow! Small units of reavers were my favorite DE units, now they just become even better!
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Mon Feb 20 2017, 01:06

Mononcule wrote:
lessthanjeff wrote:
Not sure if you guys already realized this or not, but a unit of scat bikes or reavers can easily soulburt out in front of units that are about to be charged to block the enemies since they weren't the target of the shooting attack.

Wow! Small units of reavers were my favorite DE units, now they just become even better!

How often will this be possible to do, though, really? I mean, a unit within 7 inches of the jetbike has to die first, which isn't necessary if your opponent is targetting units further away from your bikes for shooting and assault.

And when you ARE able to do it, are you really going to WANT to. With the costs of reavers and scatterbikes, they seem like poor candidates to use for chaff, and the only time they could pull it off would be in the shooting phase. Which means they could be jumping in front of 1 unit that could charge, only to be jumping within shooting and assault range of another enemy unit.

So basically the limited circumstance where this would be useful is to block assaults from a unit that was going to be charging through a narrow gap to begin with, that fired already this turn, and who doesn't have any other units nearby that have yet to fire this turn and/or would be capable of assaulting your jetbikes.

Or am I missing something?

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Mon Feb 20 2017, 01:13

Your opponent could be setting up an assault on one side of the board, and finish off a squad with shooting on another. That 2nd squad might trigger soulburst allowing a full turboboost move that they probably were not considering when setting up their assault 30+ inches away. Still fairly situational, but I plan on running 30-36 reavers, so maybe more likely with more units.
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Mon Feb 20 2017, 01:16

Assuming we're using reavers and not scatbikes for this hypothetical then you're playing CC MSU mob rather than hyper mobile gunline. You're whole army is 9-18" away from mine across the entire battlefield, I go through my shooting phase causing casualties across the board and you know based on their loadouts which ones I intend to charge with when the phase is over. as I move across your army I accidentally fully kill a unit within 7" of a unit of jetbikes, which shouldn't be too difficult when you consider that an 8' table consists of ~14 7" subsections and you can field more than 12 units of jetbikes in a single detachment, then in response you can turbo boost 36" and screen for another unit that I already shot at and intend to charge.

In short against a player who fully understands their target priority list it won't matter, it could outright win games against lesser players who rely on crutches like wulfen, knights, kdk, grey knights etc. to win games in the assualt phase tho.
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Tactics - Initial impressions   Mon Feb 20 2017, 01:31

Fair enough.

Also, it's limited based on target, too, right? Jump models, other jetbikes, and necron wraiths will be able to ignore intervening models and terrain, so it won't work against them.

I DO see your point about ruining the plans of an big assault units from low model count armies though.

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