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 Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?

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Nvs
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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 06 2011, 22:18

arhra's fall would be post fall.
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Torpedo Vegas
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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 07 2011, 04:35

Indeed. Though if he "fell" or just kept on doing what he liked to do (kill) is up for debate.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 07 2011, 09:24

I'd bet for the second.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 00:04

@Haunter! wrote:
The idea that he's a daemon is a bit absurd to me. The webway is sealed off from realspace and the warp and is more or less invisible to daemons unless a psyker attempts to commune with the warp while there. I just don't see how a daemon of any type just managed to wander into Commorragh on a whim. If joe-shmoe bloodletter can do it, what's stopping Slaanesh hirself from coming in? That's called a plot hole and a rather large one at that.
While I agree with you in regards to a a Bloodcrusher charging through the streets, read closely the fluff on Beastmasters, Khymerae and Mandrakes. Daemons do exist in Commorragh.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 02:58

@Xelkireth wrote:

While I agree with you in regards to a a Bloodcrusher charging through the streets, read closely the fluff on Beastmasters, Khymerae and Mandrakes. Daemons do exist in Commorragh.
Khymerae are brought in by Beastmasters and Mandrakes are only rumored to be descended from daemon blood. Neither of these cases have daemons just waltzing into the city on their own.

My argument is not invalidated in anyway by your examples.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 03:53

Well, Khymerae are warp-beasts who happen to be from Daemonworlds and Mandrakes aren't explicitly from the Warp. Its heavily implied but not outright stated in either case. Remember, the last time a major Chaotic presence was discovered in the Webway, a strike force of Harlequins and Dark Eldar went after it (they where Chaos sorcerers by the way), and eventually the whole sub-realm collapsed and now they're stuck in the same place Groundhog Day style.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 03:57

The distinction is that Khymerae are summoned and Mandrakes (according to rumour) came about through consentual interaction between DE and daemons.

The point is that a daemon cannot enter Commorragh without permission of some sort.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 04:25

@Preacher wrote:
So why does he kill other Incubi? For the same reason Ahra burnt the temples of the other Pheonix Lords. I would say to "prove" his perfection but I don't think that matters to him. I think it's simply because he can.
I think the reason why he kills other Incubi is more closely related to him being a Phoenix Lord. He kills because that is what he excels at, but he kills Incubi because he might not be able to.

O.K., a less confusing way to say that: There might be a better Incubus than him out there. He seeks out the best, and challenges them. Hence why he first appeared at the Great Shrine of the Incubi and hasn't left since. If they are skilled enough, they kill the Dark Father in single combat.

If you remember, earlier fluff(not repeated, but not contradicted since) stated that, in a duel between Incubi, the victorious Incubus has the right to the loser's armor.

The (theoretical) victorious Heirarch would then replace their armor with the obviously superior armor of the challenger, and then Drazhar has all the strength and skill of the one who killed him.



He kills because he is the Dark Father. He is disciplined murder embodied, the Dark Phoenix, the one who cast down the Shrines of the lesser Aspects. The one thing he cannot be is imperfect.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 08:04

Off topic and inflammatory posting will not be tolerated on my sub forum. Certain posts have been removed. Stay on topic and civil.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 08:30

@Spanna uv Komor-AAAGH! wrote:
He kills because he is the Dark Father. He is disciplined murder embodied, the Dark Phoenix, the one who cast down the Shrines of the lesser Aspects. The one thing he cannot be is imperfect.

This is a good way to look at it. Cool I just still don't know how the idea that someone could be better than him, and my view that he has perhaps passed beyond the idea of "self" mesh together. But I'd definnettly agree he kills Incubi to continue his own perfection.

And I still do love his little "get out of jail free" card he taught the Incubi. So just incase someone does best him, they take is armour and poof "I'm back baby!" and better than ever. Twisted Evil

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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 09:49

Yes, I think Spanna is on to the right track now, what he said sounds logical.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 10 2011, 00:58

@Preacher wrote:
And I still do love his little "get out of jail free" card he taught the Incubi. So just incase someone does best him, they take is armour and poof "I'm back baby!" and better than ever. Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 10 2011, 10:02

@Preacher wrote:
I just still don't know how the idea that someone could be better than him, and my view that he has perhaps passed beyond the idea of "self" mesh together.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 04 2011, 05:25

The codex states some people believe that he is dead, and it is the only spirit that remains in the armour. that is another theory

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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 04 2011, 05:47

So, exactly like Phoenix Lords are said to be then?

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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 04 2011, 10:36

@Torpedo Vegas wrote:
While I like the idea of him being a Daemon, I can't imagine a daemon making his way into the heart of Commorragh undiscovered. Though the Craftworlders do have their own Daemon so its not impossible.
What do you mean Craftworlders have their own Daemon? Sorry, I'm still learning the lore.
Are you referring to the Avatar of Khaine?
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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 04 2011, 11:02

@Zehra wrote:
@Torpedo Vegas wrote:
While I like the idea of him being a Daemon, I can't imagine a daemon making his way into the heart of Commorragh undiscovered. Though the Craftworlders do have their own Daemon so its not impossible.
What do you mean Craftworlders have their own Daemon? Sorry, I'm still learning the lore.
Are you referring to the Avatar of Khaine?

Yes, the Avatar of Khaine is, to all intents and purposes, a daemon. Not a daemon of chaos, but a being of the warp, awakened by the psychic blood-call emanating from the eldar as they prepare to go to war.


But yeah, I'm pretty sure Drahzar is meant to be Arhra, they wouldn't go to all the trouble of making his stats as mediocre and over-priced as the Phoenix Lords without a reason.

Here's hoping they get fixed in the next Eldar codex. +1 to all stats except Strength+Toughness methinks. Also, invulnerable saves plz. If A Wych can dodge it, Jain Zar sure as hell can.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 26 2011, 17:15

Due to this lengthy discussion, I think I am going to attempt to create a themed list centered around Drahzar being a Phoenix Lord (Oh hi, my first post!). When I finally start digesting the Dark Eldar Codex, I will start up a thread in the appropriate section (or continue one, if there is a Drahzar themed thread already).

-- Sorry if this is a little off topic. I just felt crazy inspired by all of this constructive discussion concerning him.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 16 2012, 04:01

like others have already said, he sounds like a pheonix lord, with his unknown background

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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 24 2012, 00:42

@shadow hunter wrote:
His profile in the book certainly suggests he is a Phoenix Lord.

I am a massive fan of striking scorpions and more specifically Karandras (as my name suggests) so this is one of the most important fluff aspects for me.

From what I re-call in the Dark Eldar background on Drazhar, he doens't actually speak. Therefore you could conclude that he is Ahra, and that the reason he is called Drazhar is simply due to Dark Eldar renaming him as he has never revealed his identity.

However, the old fluff also mentions him "burning with dark light of chaos" or something along those lines.

Is he infiltrating the dark Eldar? Setting up covens worshipping the dark Gods? Bringing them down from the inside? Attempting to breach the webway and allowing the dark gods access to all areas of the Eldar domain (craftworlds, black library, exodite worlds) etc.

Or is he simply an evil bugger?

I would agree that the evidence suggests that he is Ahra. although i would disagree with the idea that he is working for chaos. also, neither the DE or Eldar have the Black Library as part of their domain. It is the domain of the Harlequins, who both are expected to assist when necessary.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 23 2012, 19:25

For some reason i feel like the Laughing God is somehow related to this...that would explain the warp taint

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PostSubject: Re: Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord?   Is Drazhar really a Pheonix lord? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 02 2014, 04:45

Hmm this is interesting. but what do you think guys?

Should we have like our own phoenix lords/equivalent?

Maybe something like Dark Phoenix Lords Very Happy

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