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Xyrin
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PostSubject: anti-air    Fri Feb 10 2017, 03:08

I recently played a game where my opponent fielded two hellturkeys, I was under the assumption that a hellturkey only gets 1 vector strike against a flyer STR 7, ap2, no jink, not the d3+1 hits due to him not being a FMC, but he was arguing that he did. Thoughts?
Thanks.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: anti-air    Fri Feb 10 2017, 03:35

So if this is just a question then it belongs in the rules questions sub forum. If you're asking how to deal with 2 hellturkeys we can discuss that.

To address what's been presented directly, assuming 100% accuracy: They cheated but you are wrong. Our flyers can never not be zooming. Vector strike does d3 against swooping FMC's and Zooming flyers. Not D3+1.
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Xyrin
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PostSubject: Re: anti-air    Fri Feb 10 2017, 03:53

Yea, I worded my question poorly, So they do d3 hits against zooming flyers. got it, and yea I was curious on how to exactly deal with that, he was able to zoom all over and just pop my venoms like nothing and flame the passengers, kept failing my flickersaves. I won the game, but I just couldnt deal with those turkeys, I failed to get a skyfire off mysterious obj and all I had was a razorwing and a raider with some lances.
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Alvaneron
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PostSubject: Re: anti-air    Thu Feb 16 2017, 13:36

then youre screwed

Without a proper AA defense you only have some snapshots to kill them as DE, but those Lances should be used against more important and kill-able Targets.

Wth just 1 razorwing, which is the only DE AA, you should ignore the Turkeys

and well, they can´t zoom over the whole table and kill your venoms in the same turn Wink
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: anti-air    Thu Feb 16 2017, 19:52

Don't forget their weapons are hull mounted. So only a tiny arc of fire..
I know it can be difficult but you should be able to avoid them at least partially.

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Lockthrow
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PostSubject: Re: anti-air    Sun Feb 19 2017, 20:05

Well im a newbie playing DE but i play CSM since 2012 so let me tell you some advices against the turkeys.

First of all as our partners said vector does 1d3 against swooping fmc's and zooming flyers, and if he target other kind of unit is just 1 hit.

Second as DE i dont know how to deal against flyers but you can move really fast making him unable to use his weapon comfortable, a 45º sight arc is really limited (this means just 22,5º to the left and 22,5º to the right, even with torrent is easy to kite, just practise in your positioning.

Third usually your troops will be cheaper than the helldrake(170p/unit) so try play taking as much table as you can and makin him just spot groups of 20/30/50 points per shoot as much (just separate your units between them and in their own squads, remember you are faster than him to support your units even far) [try to play as MSU]

And try to get close to his units at early, if u can get in close combat he cant shoot you or try make him land for hunt the helldrake in earth.

I hope be usefull for you, and sorry if im not able to explain myself very well (i have to improve my english level)

Lockthrow

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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: anti-air    Tue Feb 21 2017, 22:37

Like Lockthrow says, your best bet is to move up the table as fast as you can and force them to pass you when they come on. Hopefully one or both of them will then go into hover mode to deal with the stuff that's threatening the rest of his army, and you might be able to get some decent shots off. Don't even bother bringing one of our flyers to try and deal with them, there's no point. To even stand a chance, you'd probably have to take a Realspace Raiders detachment with three Razorwings then whatever you'd normally take in fast attack, and even then everything would have to go your way for that to pay off. I'm not saying don't take Dark Eldar flyers at all. I'm just saying that if you do, don't expect them to be able to deal with other aircraft Neutral

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Xyrin
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PostSubject: Re: anti-air    Tue Mar 14 2017, 13:35

Thanks for the feedback on that gents. I played another game and just ignored them for the most part, rushed my grots in and juked my venoms the best I could worked out well. Cheers.
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Srota
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PostSubject: Re: anti-air    Tue Mar 14 2017, 15:56

Also take a CAD with the anti-air vengeance battery fortification. Its another valid solution considering the lack of any real viable skyfire aside from the razorwing.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: anti-air    Tue Mar 14 2017, 16:02

@Srota wrote:
Also take a CAD with the anti-air vengeance battery fortification.  Its another valid solution considering the lack of any real viable skyfire aside from the razorwing.

I really don't class the Razorwing as viable skyfire. On average it will take you the entire game to wreck a single AV11 flyer. And that's without it having any sort of save!

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Srota
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PostSubject: Re: anti-air    Tue Mar 14 2017, 16:41

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Srota wrote:
Also take a CAD with the anti-air vengeance battery fortification.  Its another valid solution considering the lack of any real viable skyfire aside from the razorwing.

I really don't class the Razorwing as viable skyfire. On average it will take you the entire game to wreck a single AV11 flyer. And that's without it having any sort of save!

Yeah it is kinda crap... The vengeance batteries aren't though. They can be useful if done right. One of the Dark Eldar guys on the Stomping Grounds team gave me that advice a few years ago.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: anti-air    Wed Mar 15 2017, 12:49

But the vengeance battery still only hits on 6 and can't harm a hell Drake... Sad

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: anti-air    Wed Mar 15 2017, 13:26

@CptMetal wrote:
But the vengeance battery still only hits on 6 and can't harm a hell Drake... Sad

Well, you obviously equip it with AA weaponry (Quad Icarus Lascannons) so that it has Skyfire it's hitting on 5+ rerollable (~55% hit chance) and at S9, AP2.

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Srota
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PostSubject: Re: anti-air    Wed Mar 15 2017, 15:58

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@CptMetal wrote:
But the vengeance battery still only hits on 6 and can't harm a hell Drake... Sad

Well, you obviously equip it with AA weaponry (Quad Icarus Lascannons) so that it has Skyfire it's hitting on 5+ rerollable (~55% hit chance) and at S9, AP2.


This was exactly my point.
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PsychicHobo
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PostSubject: Re: anti-air    Wed Mar 15 2017, 22:54

You could always take a Raven!

*cue audience laughter*

Though mine has popped quite a few Hellturkeys in its time. Still, the AA Vengeance Battery is probably the best way to go, at least until our army that descends from portals high in the sky can figure out how to shoot other things in the sky...
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