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Truth of the Gravemind
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PostSubject: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Thu Feb 09 2017, 21:19

So....

The gathering storm 2 rules are finally being leaked and I noticed something odd. Absolutely no Haemonculous Covens models allowed in the Ynari faction.

https://spikeybits.com/2017/02/4-new-40k-aeldari-formations-you-dont-want-to-miss.html
(for reference)

Also, and take this with a large degree of salt, Spikeybits has a rumour page claiming there may be
Quote :
-Elves will be getting some releases in the summer

-Some elves will be joining slaneesh as a cult.

Could the masters of pain be aligning with Slaanesh? Seems fitting with the fluff. There is also that picture with Vect denouncing Ynnead on Warhammer TVs facebook page.

I suppose technically they are both Eldar gods. And if Slaanesh will agree not to eat your soul in exchange for doing the same thing you have always been doing, it sounds like a pretty alright deal.

Talos with extra attacks and fleet? Mmmmmmm
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Thu Feb 09 2017, 21:38

Just what we need, to divorce the DE from their most powerful units.

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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Thu Feb 09 2017, 22:03

@Truth of the Gravemind wrote:
So....

The gathering storm 2 rules are finally being leaked and I noticed something odd. Absolutely no Haemonculous Covens models allowed in the Ynari faction.

https://spikeybits.com/2017/02/4-new-40k-aeldari-formations-you-dont-want-to-miss.html
(for reference)

Also, and take this with a large degree of salt, Spikeybits has a rumour page claiming there may be
Quote :
-Elves will be getting some releases in the summer

-Some elves will be joining slaneesh as a cult.

Could the masters of pain be aligning with Slaanesh? Seems fitting with the fluff. There is also that picture with Vect denouncing Ynnead on Warhammer TVs facebook page.

I suppose technically they are both Eldar gods. And if Slaanesh will agree not to eat your soul in exchange for doing the same thing you have always been doing, it sounds like a pretty alright deal.

Talos with extra attacks and fleet? Mmmmmmm

Um. No. (A)elves =/= (A)eldari

However, the dark elf cult of slaanesh rumor is probably true - it's already part of the Warhammer Fantasy lore, and was an actual army list during the Storm of Chaos campaign. So that would just mean that they're re-introducing the list from WFB into AoS.  

There is no reason to think that they'll mirror that with the Dark Eldar though, since DE don't really have an equivalent to Morathi (who started the Cult of Slaanesh in WFB).
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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Thu Feb 09 2017, 23:08

Urien Rakarth or Lelith Hesperax could easily fill that role. My money is on Urien because his model - as nice as it is - is very similar to the basic Haemonculus model, so if they were going to try and sell us a "Slaanesh Reborn Urien" that would make more sense than Lelith who's practically famous for her model. Just my opinion/guess though.

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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Thu Feb 09 2017, 23:26

Given that Urien and Vect both are rumored to have aspirations for apotheosis through Pain, I wouldn't be surprised if one of them accomplished it and the other remained as a third way traditional Dark Eldar feel. Given that we've had rumors of a Triumvirate Consisting of 2 chaos Characters and Vect I'd say that seems as plausible as ever.
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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Fri Feb 10 2017, 00:17

As i said in another topic, there is a Haemonculi Discipline working with other Eldar for Ynnead in the Coven Supplement fluff.
So for me no Coven units in the Ynnari Detachment seems stupid and/or sloppy.

Edit: And Dark Eldar becoming Slaanesh Eldar would make me puke, as i'd dislike having that Hermaphrodite God-thing shoved down my throat.


Last edited by Marrath on Fri Feb 10 2017, 00:23; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Fri Feb 10 2017, 00:19

You should complain to facebook then with citations. I'm thinking more that they were ignored due to being instantiated in a supplement just like how Curse of the Wulfen didn't really make TWolves and Bjorn Better.
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Marrath
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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Fri Feb 10 2017, 00:24

I have a face.
And books.
But no facebook.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Fri Feb 10 2017, 00:28

Give me the quote in english and a page number.
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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Fri Feb 10 2017, 00:57

As has been said, the Dark Elves (RIP) from Fantasy (RIP) were quite different from the Dark Eldar.

Every so often I see someone calling for Chaos Eldar or mistaking Dark Eldar for Chaos Eldar. I've also seen someone on Dakka claiming that there were Chaos Eldar back in Rogue Trader. I played a ton of 40k back in Rogue Trader and I don't remember that; it's not mentioned in any of my books from back then. That said, I don't have Slaves to Darkness or Lost & the Damned, or every White Dwarf from the time, so maybe there's something in there?

Either way, I genuinely don't understand how it would work.

Eldar: "I give my soul to Chaos!"
Slaanesh: "Great!" [Eats soul.]

It seems like it would be an excessively brief period of worship.

I suppose you could argue that the Eldar are already Chaos Eldar, because their souls belong to Slaanesh, but they're really keen to get out of it.

The only thing I can think of is that they could worship one of the other gods in return for protection from She Who Thirsts, but that doesn't seem worth it for the god. Nurgle or Tzeentch theoretically could antagonize Slaanesh by interfering with souls she's already claimed, but a few Eldar souls seem like a small prize for initiating a conflict like that.

@Marrath wrote:

Edit: And Dark Eldar becoming Slaanesh Eldar would make me puke, as i'd dislike having that Hermaphrodite God-thing shoved down my throat.

I'm pretty sure that's what you're supposed to do with pleasure/pain deities.

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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Fri Feb 10 2017, 01:04

A few sure. Khorne already has a legitimate claim to the soul of every aspect warrior as Khaine is an aspect of Khorne. That Khorne believes this is canon. Khorne believes it so hard that the first chaos civil war slaanesh fought was over the right to Khaine. The second was with Nurgle over Isha, the Eldar goddess of life and Ynnead/Slaanesh's direct counterpart, and Slaanesh lost. If anyone has a claim on the souls of living Eldar it is Isha.

But where a diety of pain to be born, I'd imagine the Drukhari, though not the Aeldari as a whole, would have their souls forfeited to such a creation.

The reason I refer to Ynnead as ynnead/slaanesh as I've seen absolutely no reason to consider them seperate dieties. Ynnead is simply Slaanesh with 20k years of discipline baked in. Slaanesh themselves are embittered about losing Isha to Nurgle. I don't see why Ynnead would feel different.
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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Fri Feb 10 2017, 01:24

@amorrowlyday
Coven Supplement, page 13

Phoenex paragraph.

You have the supplement?
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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Fri Feb 10 2017, 01:51

Yep. Up to "malaise of the eldar lifted forever" is now sitting on their page and we'll just have to wait and see if they respond.
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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Fri Feb 10 2017, 03:55

I thought the covens don't want to work with the Ynnari because they don't trust their "mastery over death" it kinda puts the Haemonculi out of business.

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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Fri Feb 10 2017, 04:05

That's what they said, yes. What we're saying is that there is current edition fluff of a clandestine order so far to the contrary as to receive a canon identity.
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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Fri Feb 10 2017, 05:06

Except Urien Rakarth, who the books apparently indicate is considering working for Ynnead.
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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Fri Feb 10 2017, 05:09

@amorrowlyday wrote:
That's what they said, yes. What we're saying is that there is current edition fluff of a clandestine order so far to the contrary as to receive a canon identity.

Well, that would explain why you can still battle brother with covens.

Though, really, even though the Phoenex are all about raising Ynnead, the Ynarri have apparently done it via means that completely contradict what was conventionally believed to be required (the extermination of ALL Eldar) - so, it's also safe to say that the Phoenex haemonculi might be split on them - some might support the ynarri, while others might distrust them, believing them to be false.
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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Fri Feb 10 2017, 05:14

That's totally fair! it's more about how GW chooses to respond is more important than the content of that reply at this point.
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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Fri Feb 10 2017, 05:18

@amorrowlyday wrote:
That's totally fair! it's more about how GW chooses to respond is more important than the content of that reply at this point.

GW has often picked the route that grants the most possibilities for player interpretation, because they generally want players to 'forge the narrative' - I guess it depends on how hellbent their writers are in how specific they want to craft these new plot developments to segue into 8th edition.
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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Fri Feb 10 2017, 05:21

What if, like, Ynnead doesn't actually exist, and the avatar is just the psychic manifestation of all the Eldar wishing as hard as they can that it does and that they're saved. What if it's actually a super powerful Slaanesh daemon that was drawn to the freed Eldar souls of the Infinity Circuit like I am to popcorn balls, but because Slaanesh feeds off all powerful emotions and not just pain and suffering, the combined super powerful and super spiritual hope and desperation of the Eldar fed the Daemon caused it to become their ally or something, like when I eat caramel popcorn balls. And when it reaps their souls, they actually are being absorbed by Slaanesh, but like, the part of Slaanesh that makes up strength of will and hope instead of the bad part like how I absorb popcorn balls. So their next life is like, nothing but warmth and hope and positive vibes and belief in a better future and popcorn balls and a firm affirmation that their race will survive and dank memes.

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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Fri Feb 10 2017, 05:23

What did you think I meant when I said over and over again that ynnead is just slaanesh with 20k years of discipline beaten into them?
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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Fri Feb 10 2017, 06:15

@amorrowlyday wrote:
A few sure. Khorne already has a legitimate claim to the soul of every aspect warrior as Khaine is an aspect of Khorne. That Khorne believes this is canon. Khorne believes it so hard that the first chaos civil war slaanesh fought was over the right to Khaine. The second was with Nurgle over Isha, the Eldar goddess of life and Ynnead/Slaanesh's direct counterpart, and Slaanesh lost. If anyone has a claim on the souls of living Eldar it is Isha.

Do you have a source for this? Everything I've seen has said that Khorne fought Slaanesh because he thought Khaine should belong to him, not because they were the same.

According to the 40k Wikia, Khorne came into existence during Earth's Middle Ages, which would make him significantly younger than Khaine.

@amorrowlyday wrote:

The reason I refer to Ynnead as ynnead/slaanesh as I've seen absolutely no reason to consider them seperate dieties. Ynnead is simply Slaanesh with 20k years of discipline baked in. Slaanesh themselves are embittered about losing Isha to Nurgle. I don't see why Ynnead would feel different.

Are there reasons to consider them the same diety?

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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Fri Feb 10 2017, 06:26

Quote :
Are there reasons to consider them the same diety?

Popcorn balls.

Oh I mean, they both absorb space elf souls.

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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Fri Feb 10 2017, 06:31

Read khaines wikia article it's there verbatim as khornes justification behind why he wanted khaine.

As for slaanesh: aside from similarities in physical manifestation we don't really have much of anything on ynnead yet, and slaanesh can't really be described as expected. When you consider the fact that they didn't screw she who thirsts into being, they murder screwed her into being and in that both of these gods, and fulgrim, and the emperor where all formed through masses of energy entering the warp simultaneously, slaanesh was like a water ballon that just kept inflating. Where as papa nurgle is more akin to an hourglass.
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PostSubject: Re: of the Haemonculi and Slaanesh   Fri Feb 10 2017, 06:37

@amorrowlyday wrote:
Read khaines wikia article it's there verbatim as khornes justification behind why he wanted khaine.

It says "Following this, Khorne, the Chaos God of war and murder, battled Slaanesh for Khaine, claiming the Eldar deity as his property by right since they represented the same metaphysical forces."
Link.

@amorrowlyday wrote:

As for slaanesh: aside from similarities in physical manifestation we don't really have much of anything on ynnead yet, and slaanesh can't really be described as expected. When you consider the fact that they didn't screw she who thirsts into being, they murder screwed her into being and in that both of these gods, and fulgrim, and the emperor where all formed through masses of energy entering the warp simultaneously, slaanesh was like a water ballon that just kept inflating. Where as papa nurgle is more akin to an hourglass.

Ok, so you're just speculating.

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