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 1000 points of PAIN

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Xeno1974
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PostSubject: 1000 points of PAIN   Wed Feb 08 2017, 10:10

Greetings to my kin!

I've recently started collecting Dark Eldar, and my plan is to field the first units as an allied detachment to my Craftworld Eldar, which i've been playing for 2 years now. But gradually i'd like to build them up to an independent army, of course (and get rid of those whining pussies  Twisted Evil ).
My first goal is 1000 points, as we here at the club like to play smaller games. This is the list i had in mind:

*Archon, clone field, agoniser, haywire grenades, Parasite's Kiss
*Court of the Archon: 6 Sslyth & 3 Lhamaeans in a Raider with night shields
*5 Kabalite Warriors with a blaster in a Venom with extra splinter cannon
*5 Kabalite Warriors with a blaster in a Venom with extra splinter cannon
*Razorwing Jetfighter, dark lances, splinter cannon, night shields
*9 Reavers, 3 cluster caltrops, Arena Champion with agoniser

The idea is to put pressure on my opponent with the Court (including the Archon) & the Reavers, getting them in melee as fast as possible, and in doing so draw away gunfire from my Kabalites, who will give fire support, along with the Razorwing when it shows up.

In hindsight, i figured it might be a good idea to post an alternative list that is more in line with the MSU philosophy.

*Archon, shadow field, agoniser, haywire grenades
*4 Sslyth in a Venom with extra splinter cannon
*5 Kabalite Warriors with a blaster in a Venom with extra splinter cannon
*5 Kabalite Warriors with a blaster in a Venom with extra splinter cannon
*Ravager, night shields, 3 dark lances (will need to find bits to convert my Raider then)
*Razorwing, night shields, dark lances, splinter cannon
*6 Reavers, 2 cluster caltrops, Arena Champion with agoniser

Please feel free to dissect and comment without restraints, i LOVE pain...
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sumguy777
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 points of PAIN   Thu Feb 09 2017, 05:23

instead of the blasters take a sybarite and get a haywire grenade way better. i personally dont like night shields on anything really unless i have nothign else to spend points on also 3 units of 3 reavers each with a cluster caltrops is ten times better than 1 tricked out groups of 9.

i just played a 1000 point game tonight and used a similar list


*Archon, clone field, agoniser, haywire grenades w/ venom dual cannons
*9 lhameans in a raider
2x 5 Kabalite Warriors (1sybarite w/ haywire grenade) in a Venom with extra splinter cannon
2x 5 Kabalite Warriors (1sybarite w/ haywire grenade) in a raider
3x 3 Reavers, w/ cluster caltrops and blaster

although i dont really recommend the blaster at high point costs i just wanted some ap2 in my list. and im not saying shadow field is bad i just choose to go a different rout cause i always roll a 1 for some reason
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Xeno1974
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 points of PAIN   Thu Feb 09 2017, 21:44

Thx for the ideas! Really got me thinking. I can see your point about haywire grenade vs. blaster, indeed much more likely to shave off a hull point, for the same cost. Does have a shorter range, though...
As it was my intention to make a vs. all-comers list, i'd like to keep the Razorwing for some much needed AA, but by dropping the night shields and some other upgrades, as you suggest, i can actually squeeze more Reavers in the remaining 2 FA slots.
So this is my revised list:

*Archon, clone field, haywire grenades, agoniser
*5 Sslyth & 4 Lhamaeans in a Raider with splinter racks
*5 Kabalite Warriors, blaster or Sybarite with haywire grenades in a Venom with extra splinter cannon
*5 Kabalite Warriors, blaster or Sybarite with haywire grenades in a Venom with extra splinter cannon
*Razorwing, dark lances, splinter cannon
*6 Reavers, 2 cluster caltrops
*6 Reavers, 2 cluster caltrops

That makes 987 points, not quite sure what to spend the remaining 13 on...

What do you think?
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 points of PAIN   Thu Feb 09 2017, 22:02

I'd dump the dark lances on the razorwing to start. Even if you feel like your lacking in the Anti-vehicle department neutering 12 36" anti-infantry shots down to 2 Dark lances is not how you fix it. I'd also cut the agonizer and clone field and double down on a shadowfield, you intend for the Archon to ride with their court right? With regards to the court I'd cut 1 lahmian no matter what in order to prevent the dreaded toughness turnover, and a second one if the Archon is tagging along.

Further manipulations would depend on how closely you held to this advice.
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Xeno1974
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 points of PAIN   Fri Feb 10 2017, 08:42

amorrowlyday wrote:
I'd dump the dark lances on the razorwing to start. Even if you feel like your lacking in the Anti-vehicle department neutering 12 36" anti-infantry shots down to 2 Dark lances is not how you fix it. I'd also cut the agonizer and clone field and double down on a shadowfield, you intend for the Archon to ride with their court right?  With regards to the court I'd cut 1 lahmian no matter what in order to prevent the dreaded toughness turnover, and a second one if the Archon is tagging along.

Further manipulations would depend on how closely you held to this advice.
The Razorwing is mainly there to deal with flyers en FMC's, but i will magnetize the model anyway to keep both options open. No problem there.
You're probably right about the Court. I tried to keep the unit as cheap as possible for a 9-man squad, but indeed, it only takes 2 failed saves and/or FNP rolls to bring the unit down to T3. I'll look into that.
Not quite sure about the Archon, though. If you take away the agoniser, what role will he have besides being the Warlord? Seems like a waste of his WS an I... (Although the Succubus is probably a better melee HQ). After all, a single Lhamaean is all i need to make this a CAD.
Thx for the advice, i'll work on it.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 points of PAIN   Sat Feb 11 2017, 01:35

Buddy, you have about 1/3 of your army tied into your Archon/court. Thats 1/3 of your army hiding in a AV10 3HP vehicle, then at T3 when it blows up.

I would really really recomend not going the "all eggs in one basket" approach with DE. We are not a Deathstar army, we are a MSU army.

You really want to try and maximize the amount of units in your army, generally spread out across a number of vehicles so when your enemy targets a unit with his HyperDeathBeam (tm), all he kills is 150 pts of your army, not 300.

If your set on taking an expensive Archon (which I dont recomend), put him in with some Grotesques. 105 pts gets you 9 wounds with T5 and FNP.

I also see your using the Razorwing as AT, which it simply is not meant to do. If you are set on using the dark lances, dont waste points on the splinter cannon (which cannot harm tanks).

As for the HWG vs Baster debate, its all up to you. The HWG allows you to throw it, then charge for some reliable 2HP damage, but leaves you hanging after. At least with the blaster you can stay in your vehicle, and target TEQ units (although TBH I dont bother with either).

My $0.02 anyway. What has been working for you so far? It would help us better advise you on your list.
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Xeno1974
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 points of PAIN   Sat Feb 11 2017, 09:58

Well, i did submit a MSU list in my first post on this topic, if you care to check that out. Like i said, i'm painting up the first units to fight alongside my Saim-Hann Eldar. For starters, the Archon and 9 Kabalite Warriors in a Raider. So i have no experience with the Commorrites. But i can tell by watching other people's battles that they are way more fragile than the craftworlders. Which is why i thought it might be a good idea to have one relatively tough unit that won't just vaporize in one shooting phase, and is dangerous enough not to be ignored. Every shot directed at that unit could not be spent on those cardboard vehicles and feeble bodies, i figured. But spending so many points on one unit when i only got 1000 to spend may indeed not be such a good idea after all. My bad.
About the Razorwing: you seem to have missed the point  i was trying to make about its role. It is meant to deal with flyers and FMC's, of which there are in pretty much each army i face on a regular basis, except the Orks. Night Scythes, Helldrakes, flying Daemon Princes... I don't like being shot up by things i can't even hurt, except for snap shots. I did mention in a previous reply that i was going to magnetize the weapons anyway, so there would not be a problem when i'm not facing any flying stuff. Just put the disintegrators back on when that happens. Do you see now why i combined the lances with the cannon? Both can hurt a FMC. If there are no flying enemies left, and assuming the Razorwing still lives, it can target ground units and have a weapon for any type of foe. If there would not be flyers anyway, i just go full anti-infantry with the dissies. No problem.
About blasters vs. Haywire grenades on the Sybarites. If i drop some points here and there, and if i'm going up against, say, an Imperial Guard tank column, i can take both in a unit of 5 Warriors. First blow a hole through the meatshield infantry with the Venoms to deny the tanks a cover save, and both squads of Warriors could then chuck 2 grenades AND fire 2 blasters into that pesky Hellhound or Leman Russ. Just an example. I may not know a lot about the dark kin, but i do know what they might face on our local battlefield, and what tools they might best have at their disposal to deal with whatever is out there. I've adapted my list after receiving every bit of advice you have graciously given me, but some tips seem to contradict each other, and i'm not quite sure what to do.
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sumguy777
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 points of PAIN   Sat Feb 11 2017, 15:52

Xeno1974 wrote:
Thx for the ideas! Really got me thinking. I can see your point about haywire grenade vs. blaster, indeed much more likely to shave off a hull point, for the same cost. Does have a shorter range, though...
As it was my intention to make a vs. all-comers list, i'd like to keep the Razorwing for some much needed AA, but by dropping the night shields and some other upgrades, as you suggest, i can actually squeeze more Reavers in the remaining 2 FA slots.
So this is my revised list:

*Archon, clone field, haywire grenades, agoniser
*5 Sslyth & 4 Lhamaeans in a Raider with splinter racks
*5 Kabalite Warriors, blaster or Sybarite with haywire grenades in a Venom with extra splinter cannon
*5 Kabalite Warriors, blaster or Sybarite with haywire grenades in a Venom with extra splinter cannon
*Razorwing, dark lances, splinter cannon
*6 Reavers, 2 cluster caltrops
*6 Reavers, 2 cluster caltrops

That makes 987 points, not quite sure what to spend the remaining 13 on...

What do you think?

i dont like the splinter racks in the raider we normally have no trouble hitting and it normally doesn't really help. I love reavers personally myself but a unit of 3 seems to always for 3 times better than a unit of 6 u can hide them easier. I have never used a razorwing as i have never felt the need for it (it does serve a purpose) the warriors in a venom are our bread and butter idk if wouldn't field less than 3 units of them (in a raider or venom). i would replace Sslyth & 4 Lhamaeans with grots (i know i showed you an opposite approach, and they are good but it they cost more points and you need more units). I don't like the dark lances on the razorwing either. we dont have many options for flyers but we can still outscore them. i would add a ravager instead for some anti tank.
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Xeno1974
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PostSubject: Re: 1000 points of PAIN   Thu Feb 16 2017, 22:11

Ok, i'm gonna have a new try Wink

*Archon, shadow field, agoniser, haywire grenades
*4 Sslyth in a Raider (with the Archon)
*5 Kabalite Warriors with a blaster OR a Sybarite with haywire grenades in a Venom with extra splinter cannon
*5 Kabalite Warriors with a blaster OR a Sybarite with haywire grenades in a Venom with extra splinter cannon
*Razorwing Jetfighter with dark lances (optional) and a splinter cannon
*3 Reavers with a cluster caltrop
*3 Reavers with a cluster caltrop
*3 Reavers with a cluster caltrop
*3 Reavers with a cluster caltrop
*3 Reavers with a cluster caltrop

As you may have guessed, this is a Realspace Raiders Detachment. A nice way to get more small units in, as y'all suggested. And i love jetbikes. Kept the flyer, will leave the disintegrator cannons on unless i need to clear the skies.

Waddya think?

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