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 Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?

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KiloFiX
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PostSubject: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Wed Feb 08 2017, 06:32

Apart from the new HQs, Soulburst and Artifacts, are there any real advantages to having DE, Eldar and Harlequins in the same Detachment?

I suppose just being able to start in each other's transports and avoiding more than one set of HQ / Troop tax?
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Thu Feb 09 2017, 16:26

Being able to start in raiders is probably a huge boon for some aspect warrior types.

It also removes all the really harsh restrictions on harlequins. You can, for example, take a death jester as 1 elite choice and throw him in with a shooty unit, instead of having to take him as part of a cast of players, heroes path, or other harlie detachment/formation.
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SCP Yeeman
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Thu Feb 09 2017, 22:20

Can you upgrade the Death Jester or other units to Death Masque units or are those Harlequin only detachments?
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Thu Feb 09 2017, 22:33

I'd argue yes both from a fluff perspective in that any Harlequin present for Death Masque is de facto a ynnari, which holds implications on rules applications due to the frag grenade argument. that's your RAI argument.

From a RAW stance the situation seems clear. Ynnari don't lose their previous Faction designation. They gain Ynnari as a secondary one and lose their racial chapter tactics in favor of power from death or whatever it's called. So all Ynnari Dark Eldar are just that: Ynnari Dark Eldar, Ynnari Harlequins are Ynnari Harlequins. The Death Masque book says that they can be substituted in any harlequins formationsthat call for their specified equivalent.

RAW what this does mean you can't do however is include Inriams spectre as a Elite or the Bikes as a FA. They MUST be played out of a formation, but there is nothing that precludes them from being in an Ynnari Harlequin formation (cast of players within the detachment for instance).
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Thu Feb 09 2017, 23:32

I won't go into details because I have yet to see someone duplicate my most competitive current deathstar list, but I will say that the deathstar potential with this detachment is off the charts.

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KiloFiX
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Fri Feb 10 2017, 02:46

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
I won't go into details because I have yet to see someone duplicate my most competitive current deathstar list, but I will say that the deathstar potential with this detachment is off the charts.

But it's nothing that you couldn't have put together in a squad before?
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Fri Feb 10 2017, 02:52

My Grotesquery will be getting tax free Shadowseers to buff them. Venoms that die allow my reavers/beastpack to boost up the board, or my scourges to shoot at a tank out of turn.

Oh, and I never need to look at those revolting harlequin vehicles ever again *shudders*

Basically there are a lot of combos possible now, that can actually fit in a list.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Fri Feb 10 2017, 02:54

You can now do combo's that used to take 4 detachments in 1. Not only does that make them possible in formats that only allow 3 detachment limits but you also don't need 3 detachments worth of tax either. Those points can buy more things for the deathstar.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Fri Feb 10 2017, 03:07

@KiloFix: Yeah, amorrowlyday got it. You could do it before, but it took more detachments and you paid higher taxes to do so. This detachment ultra-streamlines any eldar/DE/Harley deathstar that didn't include coven models. You'll basically run out of points before you'd run out of the ability to combo special units/rules/characters together in a standard 3 detachment limit.

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KiloFiX
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Fri Feb 10 2017, 04:59

Thanks for the input folks.
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Sat Feb 11 2017, 06:00

Black guardian detachment for full null deploy. Plus Autarch to make sure you don't table yourself turn 1

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Sat Feb 11 2017, 06:04

Yeah, I dunno. Can you take Windriders with that detachment? I think if I'm going to take a detachment to unlock full Null Deploy, I'm not sold on Black Guardians over the Scalpel Squadron.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Sat Feb 11 2017, 06:05

Yes. Any 4 of the black guardian units. Those units are guardians vypers jet bikes and walkers.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Sat Feb 11 2017, 06:06

Yeah, alright. Scatterbikes ftw.
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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Sat Feb 11 2017, 11:58

Question, slightly off topic. Can you take Black Guardians outside of a Ynnari army? I'm assuming you can, but it's an assumption nonetheless...

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Sat Feb 11 2017, 14:06

It looks like yes.
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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Sat Feb 11 2017, 14:30

Excellent, so it's just the lack of warlocks in an Ulthwe guardian unit that's facepalmable...

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Gherma
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Sat Feb 11 2017, 14:59

The pity is that you cannot have a first turn deep strike black guardians in a Ynnari detachment, because the Ulthwe strike force cannot be part of the Ynnari detachment

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Sat Feb 11 2017, 15:56

@Gherma wrote:
The pity is that you cannot have a first turn deep strike black guardians in a Ynnari detachment, because the Ulthwe strike force cannot be part of the Ynnari detachment

Nice catch! I missed that on my readthrough. Looks like we'd have to ally the strike force in if we wanted to use them for first turn deep strike. A shame, but not the end of the world.

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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Sat Feb 11 2017, 17:25

The black guardians section says "these units can only be included" as part of Ulthwe or Ynnari. Does that mean they can't be in a basic Eldar CAD? They have the Eldar Faction, so the big book would allow it... I'm not sure in the intent of this.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Sat Feb 11 2017, 17:27

It's pretty darn clear. No. They can ONLY be fielded in a reborn war host or in a Strikeforce. RAW. PERIOD.
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Sat Feb 11 2017, 17:28

I suppose CWE didn't need the boost anyway.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Sat Feb 11 2017, 19:31

CWE could still pay 360 points for 4 scat packs and get full null deployment to boot.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Sun Feb 12 2017, 01:55

@amorrowlyday wrote:
It's pretty darn clear. No. They can ONLY be fielded in a reborn war host or in a Strikeforce. RAW. PERIOD.

And only individual units in the warhost. You can't take the formation as part of the warhost. I feel like this had to have been an oversight.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Any other advantages to single detachment Ynnari?   Sun Feb 12 2017, 02:04

See, I don't because it's consistent. Wrong-headed to no end but definitely consistent. They clearly intend for Detachments to be the top level unit of army building and for formations to be a go between individual units and stand alone detachments.
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