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 Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 11:52

It's no more spammable than a regular CAD to my knowledge.

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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 12:12

Edit: Nevermind, I didn't see that the full codex has now been leaked.

@CptMetal wrote:
I'm not sold on them. The special rules don't apply to vehicles and so a classic all vehicle mounted Dark Eldar army is kind of.... Well. It's simply not working together with the new special rule.
Factor in that I can't take my grotesquerie anymore and that I lose power from Pain without gaining anything, I'll rather stay with my dark Eldar Kabal. That's even more according to the fluff, since I steal bodies and souls via soul swap.

I certainly don't want to die to power someone else!

Did I miss something? Can't you play a Grotesquerie as a normal secondary detachment?
Or are the Coven units "Come the Apocalypse" allies, now?

On the other side... who really needs Grotesques when you can have a Wraithguard Raider without a tax.
Not to mention the spamable Shadowseers.
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mattblowers
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 12:38

@aurynn wrote:
Its replaced.

What's make you say so? Is that written somewhere? I've heard it bantied about but I haven't seen that leak.

NM, I see it now. Well that stinks.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 12:52

@mattblowers wrote:
NM, I see it now. Well that stinks.
It does from our POV but not from the game's POV. :-D Imagine CWE having Battle Focus AND Soulburst... ;-)
Its bad enough that it influences Wraiths at all.
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Draco
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 12:56

@The Strange Dark One wrote:

Not to mention the spamable Shadowseers.

Any ideas how you plan on protecting them now that we have options?
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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 13:03

Not sure how much of this is new information, but stumbled across this from a chap who says he's already got the book:

Spoiler:
 

Does anyone know anything about the fluff yet?

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 14:20

Asdrubael Vect? Now I'm interested.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 17:18

I think the soulburst actions are going to spur a LOT of debate. Nothing I've read seems to give permission to override a limitation that is placed on you.

For instance, if you've already shot this turn, and a subsequent soulburst action is triggered during your melee phase in which you choose to shoot again, nothing gives you permission to override the limitation that you may only shoot once per turn. The soulburst rules clearly provide you with permission to take an out of sequence action, but don't give any indication to override other limitations that tell you you cannot do something(ie, you're limited to 1 shooting action per turn).

While I would agree that it's implied that these should be extra actions on top of what you get normally, it certainly does not explicitly say that. And the argument against it holds water, because if we can assume that it is giving permission to override prior limitations with soulburst actions, where does that permission to override limitations stop? Does that mean a deep striking unit who gets a soulburst action can charge? If not, why not? How is it different than being told you can't shoot, and shooting with a soulburst action anyway?

I have a feeling that soulburst will ultimately only really work in your opponent's turn due to rules not clearly indicating what it is giving you permission to do.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 17:34

The devs have already clearly that you can use it to shoot more than once a turn.

I do think there are some instances where the extra action will suffer restrictions, though. (Charging units you shot at, charging after firing heavy weapons, etc.)
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 17:59

Taking actions during your opponents turn is huge though!
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 18:00

Yes, I can see a much needed day one FAQ.
On heavy weapons, if you shot them, can you move with soulburst, having to retroactively snap? Do you snap fire in the enemy turn if you moved in yours? Do you snap fire if you moved in yours?
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 20:00

As I see it, a soulburst give you a free phase. You can fire only once per shooting phase, but if you get a free shooting phase, it don't goes against the "1 shooting per shooting phase". Idem for charging.
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 20:04

Sure, but can you charge with soulburst if you shot with a rapid fire weapon?
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 20:09

I mean, it is pretty clear that you can do those actions as additional phases, but do they still follow the rules of the BRB or do they work in a vacuum?
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 20:14

The rules straight up say you can do the action, even if it was already done that turn. However, it isn't clear if you can turbo boost and then assault. Betray says as much earlier where the rules say you can't assault after a turbo boost. This will likely need an FAQ.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 20:16

So you don't elect to turbo boost unless it's their turn...
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 20:23

Nor you can shoot if you turbo boost, but if the soulburst is a different phase you can. So where the limitations end and what is legit?
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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 20:25

just gonna toss in my thoughts after reading the leak:

I dislike the idea of adding extra phases to sow down the game, similar to how they added the psychic phase in but that grew on me and I'll withhold my full judgement just yet.

What I do love about the new soul burst rules is (just my opinion) that it'll make the game even more tactical when playing as or against an Ynnari army. You're going to have to have a very clear image of what your units are able to reach in terms of threat bubbles and what their actual killing potential is. When playing against, you're going to want to space out your army, but not enough that you allow multi charge rounds. I really want to see a battle between two veteran players with these rules. Ynnari vs. Ynnari is gonna be jank.

Also, it looks like the formations greatly encourage MSU, CC and vehicles/transports, and the units taken should be able to handle most infantry/MC's fairly well, do they have anything that's reliable against enemy vehicles or massed guardsmen?
edit: Wraithguard spam could handle vehicles everything

Final thought: If I have a unit of wyches screening a unit of Incubi, the wyches die in the enemy's shooting phase, I'm able to move the incubi away behind cover yah? but not run as the run is in the shooting phase? Also what happens if it's a template weapon and it hits both units?
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 20:27

IMO Soulburst is what PFP should have looked like...
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Draco
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 20:33

The more I look at it, the more I think it's as simple as written. I don't think it will take into consideration what you did in the current or previous phase, So I'm betting Turbo boosting followed by an assault or an assault after a deepstrike will be allowed. The requirements to get those off are fairly daunting in the first place.

You need to turbo boost in front of two units ending 7 or less inches apart from the unit you plan on destroying, with a 2nd unit close enough to be deemed a worthy assault unit. Then you need to completely wipe the first unit off the field, pass your charge roll, survive over-watch and you are then in assault. Will it happen? of course. How often? Not very if your opponent knows what to look for.


Last edited by Draco on Wed Feb 08 2017, 20:37; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Messed up the rule formatting)
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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 20:39

@aurynn wrote:
IMO Soulburst is what PFP should have looked like...

...the man's got a point.

It's pretty much exactly what PfP should look like.

Would have gone a long way to making DEldar more powerful too...

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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 23:38

@Draco wrote:
The more I look at it, the more I think it's as simple as written. I don't think it will take into consideration what you did in the current or previous phase, So I'm betting Turbo boosting followed by an assault or an assault after a deepstrike will be allowed.

Fracture of Biel-Tan Rules Leaks wrote:
A unit making a Soulburst action can do one of the following, even if it has already done so in this turn:

- The unit can immediately move as if it were your movement phase.
- The unit can immediately shoot (or Run or Turbo-boost) as if it were your Shooting phase.
- The unit can immediately make a charge move as if it were your Charge sub-phase

Emphasis mine.

"As if" is I think the key word. If you are making a charge as if it is your own charge sub-phase, then all of the usual rules pertaining to your charge sub-phase will apply. Turbo-boosted or Depp Struck this turn? Sorry, those conditions explicitly ban making charge moves in your Charge sub-phase, so moving as if it is your own charge sub phase won't help.

On the other hand, to my knowledge turbo-boosting doesn't explicitly forbid shooting in the remainder of your turn; rather, it is done instead of shooting in that phase. By having the option for an as if Shooting phase later, you can decide to shoot or turboboost again.

Personally, I rather like the idea of using an as if Movement phase after wiping an enemy in assault to embark on the Raider again. Twisted Evil Assuming it's still there, which of course it never is...

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Mononcule
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Thu Feb 09 2017, 01:38

I'm curious how sslyth can benefit from a warhost:
1) similar to harlies they dont lose any rule, as they dont have pfp!
2) Soulburst seems to benefit more to units close of the action (7" range) with a shooting attack. Sslyth are tough, can assault and have a decent shooting attack.
3) now we can stick a shadowseer with them and still use a transport for a versatile unit with lots of tricks (hit&run, fear, high Ld & I, T5, psychic powers, but no AP)
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Thu Feb 09 2017, 02:00

I'll be sure to let you know because I love Sslyth and it let's me slyly slip a unit they didn't list into my Ynnari. The dedicated transport Tantalus lol.

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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Thu Feb 09 2017, 02:02

Fall of the Eldar, rise of the Ssylth. Looks like it's time to make my albino ssylth archon I've always dreamed about.

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