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 Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 05:06

It DOES appear that their faction will change to 'Ynnari,' which means that Craftworld units will be able to start inside of a Commorrite vehicle. So that's something.

(Although, interestingly, an Ynnari Commorrite will not be able to start inside of a Dark Eldar faction transport.)
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Tounguekutter
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 05:14

Wow! That will probably make the Ynnari faction the one with the highest number of unit entries, if essentially they can take all non-unique Eldar units. I'm assuming Corsairs are left out of this party?

At least now we can go back to being the galaxy's creepiest taxi service. I'd rather have a more impressive distinction but that's just me.

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stevethedestroyeofworlds
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 05:23

Anyone know if there is a list of the ynnari artefacts and what they do?

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 05:30

I think dark eldar can see a little more use than that. I mean reavers with no tax. Sure it's cherry picking but at that competitive level everything is really.

Or alternatively put a lot of spikes on your wraith units getting taxi rides and call them castigators.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 06:08

Don't think I'm not gonna.

And I'd wager that Warriors in Venoms still see competitive use. They're still a good troops choice. (Although the Ynnead detachment doesn't get ObSec, does it? So there is that little pickle...)
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 06:17

I'm torn between warriors in venoms, which I think are good, or the typical scat bike.

Now this is a comparison on its merits within the Ynnari detachment.

The warriors provide an extra chance to proc SFD.
The warriors have less opportunity to benefit from SFD.

The bikes provide less chances to proc.
Benefit more from the added mobility and double shooting.

In any case the bikes provide more mobility but without obsec they have less ability to capitalize on that mobility. However the warriors lose out to a similar extent.

To me then it comes down to whether you want to proc more or benefit more. My current core idea includes enough people rolling on Revenant that I should be able to get SFD off via psychic powers fairly regularly so I will lean towards the bikes,
But with a core deathstar I can also see the benefits it would grant them.

It's a complex issue that I don't believe comes down to "scat bikes are the greatest troops ever" though that may be true.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 06:31

It comes down to "do I want to be able to wound MC on a 4+ or do I want to be able to wound MC on a 4+ while also having a 3+ save and being able to glance down drop pods."

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 06:34

I have no interest in bringing your pessimism into this thread. This is not a personal attack but I am informing you now that this is a conversation about actually sharing tactical thoughts and opinions and thus I will not dignify your baits with responses.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 06:38

You're comparing warriors to scatbikes, there is your answer. Scatbikes are a swiss army knife that do almost everything the warriors can do and more and about 20 points cheaper. The special rule just allows additional actions to be taken, so in theory it amplifies this difference because instead of 12 S6 shots a turn you're chucking 24.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 06:52

Okay... so Yncarne and Yvraine can cast Sanctic Daemonology but have absolutely no protection against perils.

Visarch has no Invul... he is easier to kill than 3 marines, although his offensive potential is considerable.

Archons can take Remnants and BL stuff... shame that Banshee mask is not among those. :-D

I dont see a place for Yvraine if she is not supercheap.

The missing covens surprise me when there is a reference to Haemis in the previous leak.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 06:54

I'm not arguing against the quality of the WJB, but your statement disregards the "relative" toughness of the venom. It's armor 10 is equivalent to toughness 6, though it suffers from the ( very real) potential to blow up, as a 2 hullpoint vehicle that needn't factor overmuch into concerns for its survivability. There is also the invuln save to consider which gives it a possibility to survive in situations the bikes will simply not. Though it suffers from the danger it represents to its occupants via explosion and "no escape" and the increased firepower of the bikes (which factors into the benefits more from SFD) it also stands to lose less of that fireprower from jinking. It also benefits from the more ephemeral defense of being a venom and not WJB which will draw much more fire from a canny opponent. The bikes also will under no circumstances trigger SFD (via their own death) more than once.

Thus my statement stands that the merits of each are, not equal, but comparable and viable to different stratagies.

The Visarch does lack an invuln but will almost certainly always benefit from FNP and LoS, alongside his healing factor. Imagine you have him in front of a squad. He tanks a hit or two before suffering a wound. You then LoS until one of your models dies, he regains a wound on a 4 or 3+ and now you repeat the process.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 06:57

Seconded.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 07:20

@The Red King wrote:
The Visarch does lack an invuln but will almost certainly always benefit from FNP and LoS, alongside his healing factor.  Imagine you have him in front of a squad.  He tanks a hit or two before suffering a wound. You then LoS until one of your models dies, he regains a wound on a 4 or 3+ and now you repeat the process.
Thats shooting. But in challenges he may get in dire straits. T3 with FNP is not much use there.

The points costs will decide. With Imperial triumvirate the characters were laughably cheap. But if Visarch is over 150pts, it will be just insulting. :-)

And I may add... Wyches and Hellions kinda get (arguably) worse in Ynnari. :-D
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HokutoAndy
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 07:53

With the combined Codex, Harlequin troupes can now be taken without a bunch of filler units you didn't care about.

An all jetbike list with craftworld jetbike troops and reaver Fast Attack sounds stylish, wonder what makes Black Guardian jetbikes worth an elite slot.

the wych+harlequin+black guardian formation that soulbursts as one is intriguing... and it seems the best use of wyches is as a screen for harlequin countercharging and guardian firepower. I wonder if they just decided "nobody's really buying guardians or wyches, give them a crazy bonus"

I hope this marks the highwater point of formations and the next edition squats them, or makes them more coherent and manageable.
---

You could make a pretty neat Vampire Counts in Spaaaace army with this. Skeleton warriors as the basic troops and vampires as the characters


Last edited by HokutoAndy on Wed Feb 08 2017, 08:00; edited 1 time in total
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 07:56

In challenges the Visarch should mulch most reasonable opponents. Anything short of a 3+ invuln or massive toughness which are arguably the wrong thing for him to fight. He's really like a super incubus and has their same drawbacks.

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HokutoAndy
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 08:02

Is Battle Focus or Power from Pain replaced by the Ynnari special rules like Soulburst? Or is it cumulative so your Dark Eldar Ynnari get PfP and your Craftworld Ynnari get to run and gun.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 08:05

Its replaced.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 08:20

So looking everything that's listed over, presuming ynnari are battle brothers then regular DE, CWE, and harlies then I'd imagine that cheap mooks to die would be advantageous. Alternatively you could take a min detachment with an yncarne, 2 units of kabalites and a Lahmian and add add an yncarne to your list for almost nothing. I'll gladly "hide" 3 weak units on the table to trigger its birth for 365pts total. Turn 1 lahmian moves up. Your turn 1 you kill my lahmian for first blood and yncarne is born. My turn 2 my yncarne charges you.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 08:37

I think that Yncarne will make some people reconsider killing units T1, trying to prevent its T2 charge. :-D
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 09:13

@aurynn wrote:
And I may add... Wyches and Hellions kinda get (arguably) worse in Ynnari. :-D

Sadly I called it a while back. They're suicide units to buff their more worthy comrades. It's a slight improvement in my view. At least there's a reason to bring them now.

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 09:17

From what ive seen our triumvirate is very "meh" when compared to the uber-cheese garbage the imps got... and nobody is surprised. Neutral  
The big, stupidly difficult to paint, deamon might be ok tho.

The formations don't look great either so far, too many tax units. I hope there are more/better ones.

I am happy i can run my existing DE army + some harleys in a couple of CADs and play with the new army rules. Smile
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 09:20

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@aurynn wrote:
And I may add... Wyches and Hellions kinda get (arguably) worse in Ynnari. :-D

Sadly I called it a while back. They're suicide units to buff their more worthy comrades. It's a slight improvement in my view. At least there's a reason to bring them now.

Well that formation of theirs with Yncarne and the formation bonuses is not exactly bad. They do get FNP 5+ and Fearless just from proximity. FC from formation and Formation-wide Soulburst.

But outside that...

Sadly Yncarne is just a tough psyker who can teleport to safety. Khorne Chaos lord with Daemon Weapon can kill her. Hell even Khorne CHSM can kill her. Not reliably, but its certainly not impossible.
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Siticus the Ancient
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 10:54

Strength from Death is crazy. The unit variety available to the Ynnari is nuts. I can keep playing my current Eldar/DE mix lists with a Wraithguard core except now they get an extra action after they wipe something out with their Wraithcannons or D-Scythes. Just imagining a Wraithknight mopping up multiple units in a single turn is fantastic. A small downside is that the coven units aren't present - but all this means I'll actually take Archons for WWP duty rather than the Haemonculi.

Wyches are indeed a sacrificial lamb to empower the Yncarne, but that's far better than being a dust depository on a shelf. They're like skittles for the avatar of death to munch on.

I am very curious what are the stats of the Black Guardians.

All in all, this book makes me want to play 40k again, something I haven't done for well over a year.

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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 10:56

I'm not sold on them. The special rules don't apply to vehicles and so a classic all vehicle mounted Dark Eldar army is kind of.... Well. It's simply not working together with the new special rule.
Factor in that I can't take my grotesquerie anymore and that I lose power from Pain without gaining anything, I'll rather stay with my dark Eldar Kabal. That's even more according to the fluff, since I steal bodies and souls via soul swap.

I certainly don't want to die to power someone else!
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Wed Feb 08 2017, 11:02

Well the WK spam is an obvious craziness here...

But I will wait with judgements until I have the book.
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