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 Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Sat Feb 18 2017, 04:05

Warlock conclave of 1 rolling on sanctic, Any ally of convenience whose min squad goes down to 1. Since they don't count as friendly units any ally of convenience between a squad of D-scythes and a target would probably die. Screen with Kroot and then shoot flamers through them.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Sat Feb 18 2017, 04:55

Big Meks seem to do so with stunning regularity. My most frequent Tau player often does as much damage to his own Riptides as I do. (I know, these are just bad luck--I'm joking.)

Tomb Spyders? They can still hurt themselves while dropping babies, yeah?

Any psyker that mucks around with Daemonology without being a Daemon or a Grey Knight can get themselves killed pretty damn quick. Massed Gets Hot! Weapons will cause casualties pretty swiftly.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Sat Feb 18 2017, 06:08

@amorrowlyday wrote:
Warlock conclave of 1 rolling on sanctic, Any ally of convenience whose min squad goes down to 1. Since they don't count as friendly units any ally of convenience between a squad of D-scythes and a target would probably die. Screen with Kroot and then shoot flamers through them.

I'm pretty sure you can't do this. Under the allies rules, it says they're treated as enemy units, "except they may not be targeted with shooting, assaults, or psychic powers" or something very close to that effect. Placing a template over a unit counts as targeting them, even if they aren't the primary target.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Sat Feb 18 2017, 06:11

Nope. Template explicitly states friendly unit. bullet point 4 under Allies of Convenience explicitly states that Allies of Convenience are not friendly units. "Are not counted as Friendly units for psychic powers, abilities, and so on" Templates would fall under the so on.

A friend of mine who I have RAW discussions with said something similar going as far as to point out that were it legal KDK would do it all the time for blood tithe points. When I pointed out why it was legal they agreed with me and with my estimation that it hasn't been pushed on yet because KDK have bad AoC choices, because the daemons are what people want, and CtA is illegal in a lot of ITC events.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Sat Feb 18 2017, 06:30

@amorrowlyday wrote:
Nope. Template explicitly states friendly unit. bullet point 4 under Allies of Convenience explicitly states that Allies of Convenience are not friendly units. "Are not counted as Friendly units for psychic powers, abilities, and so on" Templates would fall under the so on.

A friend of mine who I have RAW discussions with said something similar going as far as to point out that were it legal KDK would do it all the time for blood tithe points. When I pointed out why it was legal they agreed with me and with my estimation that it hasn't been pushed on yet because KDK have bad AoC choices, because the daemons are what people want, and CtA is illegal in a lot of ITC events.

This is a direct quote from the allies section:

Rulebook wrote:
Allies of Convenience
Units from the same army that are Allies of Convenience treat each other as ‘enemy units’ that cannot be charged, shot, attacked in close combat, or targeted with psychic powers.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Sat Feb 18 2017, 06:40

Right and then in the bulleted section that follows it explains how that is the case, which has to do with targeting

Except nowhere in the template USR does it state that incidental units are targeted. In fact it suggests the opposite by only using the word targeted to refer to the initially chosen unit. As a direct quote the only location that target shows up is in the second sentence:

"...and the rest of the template covers as many models in the target unit as possible with out touching any other friendly models"

Target is explicitly defined back in the other section we're discussing. Choose a Target "...Choose a single enemy unit for them to shoot"

Nowhere, not under the template rule, nor under the shooting phase, the only place target is defined, does it state that incidental models are treated as the target of the attack, merely that they are hit, and that friendly models may not be.

Allies of convenience are not friendly models, nor the target of the shooting attack, ergo permissible.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Sat Feb 18 2017, 07:08

I don't have the time or inclination to scour the book and FAQs at the moment to find further evidence, but there are other examples that show, at the very least, that tournaments tend to rule that placing a template over a model counts as targeting it, even when it isn't your primary target.

I believe it may be associated with FAQs regarding invisibility, though, if you care to look for it.

I could be wrong, but I'd imagine most tournaments would rule against being able to flame your own allies of convenience.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Sat Feb 18 2017, 07:11

I will. Detachment limits are actually what are going to prevent me from doing this in all likelihood but If I can find a good way to fit them in it's the sort of thing I'll include in my pre-reg questions along with counts as approval.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Ynnari Special Rules "Leak"   Sat Feb 18 2017, 14:57

The blasts would be nice if the enemy was not constantly conga-lining across the board. With the FAQ about Tank Shock allowing us to actually kill models via that method, I was increadibly happy. It added a new mechanic where it penalized the conga line, and would make people WANT to bunch up.

Unfortunatly despite reviewing this rule with the opponent every time I played, and getting them to agree to play with this mechanic, when it came time for me to Tank Shock they refused to play by the agreed-upon rule. Since then I have lost all faith in (small) blasts.

The Conga Line still rules the year 40k. Small Blasts are terrible
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