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 Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Thu Mar 09 2017, 19:19

Right, and you have to get the avatar into combat with him, and the avatar isn't nearly as difficult for OTHER things to kill him via shooting.

If the avatar wasn't immune to girlyman's weapon, he'd probably die in 1 round of combat with him. Girlyman is absolutely disgusting in combat.

It makes me wonder: Where do they have left to go if they bring in more primarchs? And if they do bring in more primarchs, are any non-space marines players going to get primarch-level stuff? Or do we just have to be jealous and/or switch to space marines? Do they consider The Yncarne to be our "Primarch" level thing? If so, someone at GW needs kicked in the balls.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Thu Mar 09 2017, 19:52

The Yncarne + soulburst is probably the 'light eldar' primarch yes. Covens/Mandrakes/Kabals-as-Vampire-Counts as 'shadow eldar' will probably have Vect as rumored and something sinister .

As far as other factions: Gazghull has now lived longer and harder than the primorks due to his travel through time and could have a statline like 8 across the board and native instant death. Tau will probably get a utility pull like Greyfax since they don't need a centerpiece. Nids could be literally anything.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Thu Mar 09 2017, 20:11

Having the Yncarne + Soulburst be our equivalent is stupid. You can save yourself 275 points and only take the + soulburst. I hear that the upcoming special detachment imperials get also has obsec, on top of whatever else it gives them.

I can only see the Yncarne being situationally useful. The ability to teleport around can cause problems for opponents that don't have obsec and are trying to score an objective. Any time they kill one of your units off an objective, you can teleport the Yncarne there, contesting the objective again.

But aside from that, the Yncarne isn't that hard to kill, doesn't have any shooting other than psychic powers while being the centerpiece for an army that thrives on extra shooting phases, and isn't even that great in melee. For her price and the lack of shooting, she should have a D-weapon in melee, but doesn't. The Yncarne gets access to 2 psychic powers, one of which is sanctic daemonology, which includes a "buff" that actually hurts the Yncarne because it's a daemon. For basically the same price, you can get a sword and board wraithknight with a D-weapon in melee, tons more surviveability, and more maneuverability. Or even better, a D-cannon wraithknight that can move 12", shoot 2 d-cannons and a scatter laser, kill stuff, assault a unit, kill it in melee, soulburst and shoot 3 more units.

Yvraine, The Yncarne, and the Visarch are poorly designed units, insofar as rules go. The visarch is the best of the 3, but is limited in his usefulness by not being allowed to be included in vehicles in non-ynnari armies, so if you took him in a DE list, he couldn't start in a raider.

And ALL of this is a shame, because I really like all the models. I pre-ordered all of them, and doubt I'll ever use them, other than to represent something else. I couldn't imagine them making a model that looked as cool as the Yncarne bad after seeing the release of Celestine and Cawl. Serves me right, I guess. I shouldn't pre-order anything. I've learned this lesson time and again with kickstarter and steam "early access" stuff.

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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Thu Mar 09 2017, 20:49

And the funny things is I see Ultrasmurf players actually complaining that Papa Smurf isn't powerful enough... Now that has calmed down a bit after the first day but many still have some grumbling mixed in with their statements.

Maybe as the story progresses the Avatars will become more powerful and get rules for that version?


Last edited by CurstAlchemist on Thu Mar 09 2017, 20:50; edited 1 time in total
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Thu Mar 09 2017, 20:50

They actively and adamantly think that 30K roboute is better.
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Thu Mar 09 2017, 20:57

Yeah many people complained about the difference in mobility between the 30k version and 40k version until people pointed out that they have all kinds of tools to move him around such as psychic powers. Now that seems to have calmed some of the discussions on the mobility front. Still grumbling that he can't be placed in an honor guard for look out sirs.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Thu Mar 09 2017, 21:29

He's ludicrously powerful for his points cost. I could see and understand some complaints about his power level if they're looking at it from a purely fluff perspective or something. I could see an argument for greater mobility, and the ability to join other infantry of some sort in a unit.

But I couldn't see either of those things at his current points cost. In a world where Drazhar is almost 200 points, and several pheonix lords are 220 points, I can't even imagine how they came up with his current points cost as is.

Compare him even to other MCs. In combat, he will defeat a 300 point bloodthirster with maximum exalted rewards pretty handily in combat, just due to better saves and a S10 AP1 semi-D weapon. And the bloodthirster is ONLY a beatstick. He helps his army in absolutely no other way, is almost as expensive as papa smurf, and gets tooled by papa smurf at the 1 thing he's supposed to be boss at, while papa smurf ALSO gives his entire army buffs.

You think we have it bad? Imagine how the bloodthirster feels. He can't even do his 1 job right because of this guy. Wink


EDIT: In thinking about it, I suppose if your barometer for points costing is comparing to a wraithknight, I might be able to see how they arrived at that points cost. It's incredibly flawed in a variety of ways, but I could see it if they started from the point of a 295 point barebones wraithknight.

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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Fri Mar 10 2017, 22:11

Well I guess I've found an answer to the complaints about no honor guard for look out sirs that will bring in new complaints for competitive player who have tournaments with limits on the number of formations.


Last edited by CurstAlchemist on Fri Mar 10 2017, 22:27; edited 2 times in total
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Fri Mar 10 2017, 22:13

Why would they care about detachment limits? They will take it as part of the larger victrix detachment that makes RG and ultramarines better, and only field a single detachment for limits purposes.
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Fri Mar 10 2017, 22:22

Because I didn't realize that they can include formations within their detachment making it count as a single one...
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Fri Mar 10 2017, 22:31

Yep, that's why Dark eldar and harlequin focused eldar players have been complaining about detachment limits for 2 years and it doesn't go anywhere: SM are the largest factions and they have had a gladius or equivalent to make a "1 detachment" army that contains 5 formations, while DE and Harlies have been hamstrung. I earnestly don't know if our base codex is as bad as we constantly complain about: After we were hamstrung with our book of nerfs we've been forced to play shorthanded since. /endrant
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