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 Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch

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Cherrycoke
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Tue Feb 21 2017, 15:34



Ok, I know i'm late to the party, and we've all seen this guy now, but what even is that?
Whats with the giant legs, colossal fapping arm and tiny pinhead, there is like.. no symmetry to it. At all. None.

Like okay, I know I can be negative especially about Marines, but this is systematic of Games Workshops sculpting direction for a long time now, personally speaking. I'm hardly ever moved by their new releases. It's all just so big/blocky/chunky.
However nice and clean cut, detailed etc they make these things, if theres zero proportionality, you lose everything thats aesthetically pleasing to the eye from the get go.

Also on the subject, the amount of iconography they stick on Space Marines armor now is absurd.
Take this model for example.
Dark Angels Chaplain:
 

I think I count over 14 seperate Dark Angel Sword symbols on this model, I probably missed a few. Why does it need 14 chapter icons on one guy? and theres probably worse offenders out there tbh.
Again, personally speaking, I feel like the best marines they've put out in a long while have been the plastic Forgeworld Heresy remakes, simply due to them not being covered head to toe in an obnoxious amount of chapter crud.

Ok, i'm done, end rant.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Tue Feb 21 2017, 15:41

I agree on the iconography on the DA Chaplain but to be fair to our Spiritual Liege I actually only see 3 pieces of specific UM heraldry on him (2 UM symbols and an XIII on his belt). The rest appears to be generic Imperial iconography, albeit rather a lot of it!

As to the proportions, I actually don't have any real issue. The legs seem to fit with the torso scale and I'm assuming his left arm is a power fist, which are always bigger than normal arms, hence the disparity between right and left arms. The armour should always be massive, even on a Primarch, and the head will always look disproportionately small especially when surrounded by the massive shoulder pads that that Marines have always sported.

Overall, not my favourite GW figure but nowhere near as bad as many seem to think.

But that's just my opinion. To each their own.

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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Tue Feb 21 2017, 15:51

Oh hey look, it's a Tzeentch Daemon Prince...

Seriously, he's one head-swap away from being a perfect fit in a Thousand Sons army.

The only way I've been able to get past the massively disproportionate body is by headcanon-ing that there was pretty much just a torso and head of ol' Girlyman left, so the rest is Ad Mech bionics Smile

I get that it's a style choice, so is absolutely down to personal preference, but I much prefer the FW gritty realism style Primarchs. I'm sure many people like the new Roboute Tzaaniman, and he can probably be cleaned up with a less garish paint scheme, but he's not for me Wink

Oh, one more nitpick. Why does he need his own name written on his shoulderpad? Is it in case anyone forgets who the 15ft tall giant Ultramarine dude is? Seems like a reasonable concern...

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Tue Feb 21 2017, 16:06

He's also got L and R on his hands Smile

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Ynneadwraith
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Tue Feb 21 2017, 16:11

@Count Adhemar wrote:
He's also got L and R on his hands Smile

...and a piece of string through his chest armour tied to each of his gauntlets Wink

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Mon Mar 06 2017, 10:23

Stats are leaked and there's been a battle on Twitch

Stats are WS9 BS6 STR6 T6 W6 I6 A6 LD10 2+

Has a 3++ invul
When slain he returns on a 4+ with D3 wounds
All Imperium Models must re roll pinning, morale, fear tests
Has all Command Warlord traits from BRB
When Ultramarines enact a doctrine all models are affected by the rule's full effect
His Lds is always 10, can never be affected or lowered (dammit!)
Precision Strike and Shot
Preferred enemy Chaos
FNP
Eternal Warrior

The Sword is Str10, Ap1, Armorbane
On a roll to hit of 6 becomes StrD
Can swap all normal attacks for a number of hits equal to the number of models within 1" of him

Shooting attack is Str6, Ap2, Assault 3, Rending

Rumoured to be 350 points but he's a MC so can't join a unit.

Overall, not that impressive.

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Mon Mar 06 2017, 16:11

Admittedly, he'd be more impressive if he was a jump monstrous creature, but come on...he's super buff in melee and has MASSIVE force multiplier potential.

He gets ALL command traits from the book, gets an extra copy of all tactical doctrines, and gives all imperium models rerolls on pinning, morale, and fear.

Reminder of what the buffs look like from command traits all spelled out:
Friends within 12" can use his leadership instead of their own.(This means no one within 12" of him is subject to leadership penalties. He's the ultimate anti-freakshow agent.)
Enemies within 12" must use their lowest leadership instead of their highest.
All friends within 12" have move through cover.
All friends within 12" add 1" to run and charge distances.
All friends within 12" reroll 1s to hit in both assault and shooting.

Personally, I think he's plenty impressive. When I looked at his stats and abilities with his cost, I actually thought he made the price for a wraithknight look reasonable. 295pts for a barebones wraithknight, or for 50 more points, this guy.

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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Mon Mar 06 2017, 16:29

Just as a question, could one just use the Eldar Banshee, Jaina Zar, character and disarm him ? Haven't played Eldar but can't se any reason not to. Because, that'd be hillarious to just go up and disarm him of his big stick and giggle a little
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Mon Mar 06 2017, 16:46

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Admittedly, he'd be more impressive if he was a jump monstrous creature, but come on...he's super buff in melee and has MASSIVE force multiplier potential.

He gets ALL command traits from the book, gets an extra copy of all tactical doctrines, and gives all imperium models rerolls on pinning, morale, and fear.

Reminder of what the buffs look like from command traits all spelled out:
Friends within 12" can use his leadership instead of their own.(This means no one within 12" of him is subject to leadership penalties. He's the ultimate anti-freakshow agent.)
Enemies within 12" must use their lowest leadership instead of their highest.
All friends within 12" have move through cover.
All friends within 12" add 1" to run and charge distances.
All friends within 12" reroll 1s to hit in both assault and shooting.

Personally, I think he's plenty impressive. When I looked at his stats and abilities with his cost, I actually thought he made the price for a wraithknight look reasonable. 295pts for a barebones wraithknight, or for 50 more points, this guy.

He's good but he has serious drawbacks, primarily his lack of ability to be in a vehicle or a unit. Any opponent who is worried about his buffing abilites will simply focus him down. A single unit of grav centurions will take 2-3 wounds off him each turn and you really don't want any D weapons pointing in his direction as he can be 6'd out with no Lo,S! available.

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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Mon Mar 06 2017, 16:54

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Admittedly, he'd be more impressive if he was a jump monstrous creature, but come on...he's super buff in melee and has MASSIVE force multiplier potential.

He's good but he has serious drawbacks, primarily his lack of ability to be in a vehicle or a unit. Any opponent who is worried about his buffing abilites will simply focus him down. A single unit of grav centurions will take 2-3 wounds off him each turn and you really don't want any D weapons pointing  in his direction as he can be 6'd out with no Lo,S! available.

I play mostly in ITC tournament format, where ranged D weapons can't get results of a 6, so that may be the main difference in perspective.

The grav centurions would hurt him, but he's got 3++ invuln and FnP against them, so he'd still be tough to kill, and get's back up on a 4+ if they DO kill him. He's far harder for those grav centurions to kill than a wraithknight is, due to his impressive invuln save and his return from death ability.

@Von Snabel wrote:
Just as a question, could one just use the Eldar Banshee, Jaina Zar, character and disarm him ? Haven't played Eldar but can't se any reason not to. Because, that'd be hillarious to just go up and disarm him of his big stick and giggle a little

She could disarm him, yes. But then she'd still be in combat with a WS9, S6/T6 guy with 6 AP2 attacks(because he's a monstrous creature so he gets AP2 automatically from the "smash" rule).

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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Tue Mar 07 2017, 09:25

Full dataslate has appeared:



Basically as Count says, but with added Adamantine Will and FLEET.
Also, his two combat weapons do come under a single profile.
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Tue Mar 07 2017, 10:15

Hehe! Another model that can't damage the Avatar of Khaine!

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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Tue Mar 07 2017, 16:17

So the Imperial Truth as well as The Emperor's vision for humanity is completely dead and Girlyman won't be bringing it back it seems. 30k armor, Armor of Reason, 40k armor, Armor of Faith.

I was wrong on the name.


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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Tue Mar 07 2017, 20:05

I think it says armour of fate.

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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Tue Mar 07 2017, 20:28

You are right I saw a larger picture of it and it is Fate. Actually re-looking at the one posted here it is clearly fate, teach me not to double check before posting Smile.
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Tue Mar 07 2017, 21:46

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Hehe! Another model that can't damage the Avatar of Khaine!

How come?

If so, then it's fantastically ironic from a fluff perspective that an Avatar is a hard-counter to a Primarch Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Tue Mar 07 2017, 21:56

Well the Avatar is unaffected by the Emperor's Sword because the weapon is Soul Blaze. If I understand how the rule works correctly (I've never used an Avatar of Khaine).

Edit: Damn I need more sleep I can't seem to make a coherent thought today.
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Tue Mar 07 2017, 22:06

Haha awesome Smile The Avatar finally gets its revenge

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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Wed Mar 08 2017, 01:57

But he can choose to attack unarmed, and he still has S6 AP2, which can hurt the Avatar.

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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Wed Mar 08 2017, 21:41

I can't actually find anything in the rules that covers attacking unarmed. Is there an option to not use your melee weapon?

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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Thu Mar 09 2017, 00:08

Looks like you're right. If he had a pistol or something that could be counted as a close combat weapon, he could use that instead, and if he is disarmed by a character like Jain Zar, he can attack unarmed(counting as using a CC weapon), but it doesn't look like he can specifically choose not to use his main weapon. How silly, haha. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Thu Mar 09 2017, 00:56

Edit: Nevermind, the Hand of Dominion is actually combined in the profile with the Emperor's Sword so they count as being the same weapon (I'm guessing).
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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Thu Mar 09 2017, 09:24

Haha! Absolutely brilliant Smile

However, isn't there something in the rules that states that all models count as being armed with a close-combat weapon? Or is that in the case of models armed with a gun only?

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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Thu Mar 09 2017, 09:40

@Ynneadwraith wrote:
Haha! Absolutely brilliant Smile

However, isn't there something in the rules that states that all models count as being armed with a close-combat weapon? Or is that in the case of models armed with a gun only?

I think it's in the event of not having a specified melee weapon, which Rowboat has.

Avatar has 5 attacks, hitting on 3+, wounding on 2+. Girlyman has a 3++ and FNP. By my calculations, the Avatar will take 10 assault phases to kill Robot Gullmoon (who then has a 50/50 chance of standing back up again). Still, that's better than his chances of killing the Avatar!

Think I'll stick with the onslaught of D weapons!

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PostSubject: Re: Next Gathering Storm Book - Rise of the Primarch   Thu Mar 09 2017, 12:31

Ah I see Smile

So, not quite a hard counter. More an 'ultimate tarpit'.

I do like the poetic justice though Wink

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