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sumguy777
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PostSubject: Dark Eldar / Harlequins   Fri Jan 27 2017, 22:39

I was messing around trying to get more jet bikes in my list and looking for formations to help out. I came across harlequins, specifically the formation of Faolvhu’s Blade. It gives an additional jink save to the units in the formation. I thought this hit and run list was pretty good. Although with my lack of experience I really don’t know.
Detachment- Heamonculus Covens
Formation – grotesquerie - Heamonculus w/ splinter pistol and Flesh gauntlet, 3 grots each with raider 400pts
Detachment- Harlequins
Formation – Faolvhu’s Blade w/ 2x2 Sky Weavers each w/ a Zephyrglaive, 1x Voidweaver w/ Prismatic Cannon – 320pts
Formation – Faolvhu’s Blade w/ 2x2 Sky Weavers each w/ a Zephyrglaive, 1x Voidweaver w/ Prismatic Cannon – 320pts
Detachment – CAD – Dark eldar
HQ- Lhaneans w/ Venom dual Splinter Cannons – 75 pts
Elites- Mandrakes – 36pts
Troops- 3x 4 k- warriors, Sybarite w/Haywire Grenade each in venom w/dual splinter cannon 360pts
Fast attack- 3x 3 Reavers each with cluster caltrops 189pts
Heavy Support – Ravager w/ 3x Dark Lance 125pts
This comes to 1825/1850. Im not sure what the remaining upgrades would benefit from the points. I also wanted to fit in another unit of warriors w/ a Haywire grenade in venom. Perhaps that’s wrong. I am not sure how I would take down a wraith knight either except with hit and run tactics and shooting with lances and prismatic cannons. Didn’t know if this list was tournament playable either? I looked up the ITC rules but I am not even sure what rules tournaments normally run. I am not sure on the mandrakes, but I thought another cheap unit to draw fire or distraction was good. The idea was to charge across the board turn 1 with the grots while the skyweavers and reavers get into position for their hit and run shenanigans all with suppressive vehicle fire and softening. All help is welcome and any input. Thanks
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sumguy777
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar / Harlequins   Sun Jan 29 2017, 04:59

No thoughts? Kinda wanted to hear what people more experienced had to say?
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BizarreShowbiz
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar / Harlequins   Sun Jan 29 2017, 09:27

That list sounds like very little units, and very fragile, expensive and harmless at that. The double faolchus blade confuses me, becouse they are the two worst units in codex: harlequins. Yes, they get to rr their jink saves, but that doesnt make them hit any harder.

Basically this army is a glass cannon, without the cannon. There are plenty of lists lately of people that are starting with dark eldar in this section with sound advice. Im sorry, but it looks like you have to go back to the drawing board, buddy. Crying or Very sad

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar / Harlequins   Sun Jan 29 2017, 10:07

Its not that bad actually.

If you take out the Faolvhu’s Blade formations the rest of your list is solid. Smile
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sumguy777
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar / Harlequins   Sun Jan 29 2017, 20:38

i appreciate the advice, even if its not what i wanted to hear. I really like to hear why though so i dont repeat the same mistakes. I don't understand how the Faolvhu’s Blade are bad? pros - 4+ rerollable save out side of combat, 5 str on the charge at int-6 w/ 4 attacks at ap 2, 6 shots compared to 3 with potential ap 2, mirage launchers to protect against anti- cover weapons.
cons- 2nd round of combat sucks, 120 points for 4 wounds instead of 63 points for 3.
3 str hammer of wrath's are not as good as 4 str or the clutered caltrops.
(compared to reavers)

voidweavers - 15 points more for better jink, an invul, and higher str weapons.

is there an example of a unit you would exchange them for? i would like a close combat unit that hits decently hard and is moble. i thought about doing a double cad. but losing the ap kinda worrys me as i wanted a tool for that utillity.

anyway i really appreciate the help
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar / Harlequins   Mon Jan 30 2017, 01:04

I also want to hear about how 17 units, not even separating the crews out from their boats, is "very little".

I play 3 detachment limit almost exclusively so I can't comment on the effectiveness of what your doing but to say it's all glass with no cannon and has too few units is just flat wrong. That said there are going to be very specific things that are very common that you just straight up won't be able to deal with. Av12+ walkers, specifically Knights, and GMC's come to mind.
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sumguy777
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar / Harlequins   Mon Jan 30 2017, 02:09

amorrowlyday wrote:
I play 3 detachment limit almost exclusively so I can't comment on the effectiveness of what your doing .

this should fulfill the 3 detachment limit at least according to the itc rules
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/community/frontline-gamings-independent-tournament-circuit/itc-2015-season-40k-tournament-format/

amorrowlyday wrote:
That said there are going to be very specific things that are very common that you just straight up won't be able to deal with. Av12+ walkers, specifically Knights, and GMC's come to mind.

i may be relying on the haywire grenades a bit too much. and the paper tanks for help with them. that was the plan though. anything you like that you have tried?
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar / Harlequins   Mon Jan 30 2017, 02:28

See I'd explicitly say you don't. the double-detachment rule, (Rule 4) does not grant you permission to break rule 3. Do not forget that a formation is explicitly a detachment and nothing about meta-detachments (decurions) in rule 4 note 2 being allowed to not count their constituent formations allows you to do what you are doing.

I don't like darklight for real vehicles at all. I use a corsairs balestrike band with darklances in my competitive list and they routinely underwhelm if shooting at real (av12) vehicles. I do like haywire though as it's basically fleshbane for vehicles and since they only have 1 bad roll for a save with no rp/fnp in 99.9% of cases it's actually even better than this analogy.

Quite literally the only reason I even take vanilla dark eldar anymore is for scourges. Haywire blaster scourges are a faction jewel that isn't really replicated anywhere else. Darklight can be found elsewhere and fusion guns actually surpasses heat lances, albeit at 3" closer, at everything up to and including AV16 and that's just impractically high, but truly ranged haywire is incredibly rare and is stupid effective. I'm not saying killing a baneblade or knight becomes point and click, that role is reserved for fire dragons, but it's close and they can move fast enough to take down something else afterwards.

If you can find the FOC slots I like 3 squads of Scourges 2 with haywire and 1 with a heatlance. I also like the reaper in theory, and I like the voidraven in practice, especially with dark scythes, but it's a rarity that I'll have 160pts to spend on one.
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar / Harlequins   Mon Jan 30 2017, 08:08

I don't think they're as efficient as reavers (or eldar or corsairs jetbikes) but if you want to use some Faolvhu’s Blades then I say do it till it stop working and good luck.

Otherwise as i said above the rest of your list is solid, so i would take more of that in a 2nd CAD.
Or some eldar or corsairs awesome-sauce for the 3rd detachment.
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sumguy777
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar / Harlequins   Mon Jan 30 2017, 08:12

ok well i dont like running just 1 formation of the harlequins its gonna force me into too many unwanted choices.  I think a double CAD would work out better. as i like scouges a lot my self. im not sure about this list either its 1850 on the nose and i can get more fast attack. the other option was to drop the cad and take the RSR formation. i am not sure about losing the objective secured choices though. anyway this is both lists.
list 1
Formation – grotesquerie - Heamonculus w/ splinter pistol and Flesh gauntlet, 3 grots each with raider ( one upgraded to an aberration w/ agonizer) 435pts
Detachment – CAD – Dark eldar
HQ- Lhaneans w/ Venom dual Splinter Cannons – 75 pts
Elites- Mandrakes – 36pts
Troops- 2x 4 k- warriors, Sybarite w/Haywire Grenade each in venom w/dual splinter cannon 240pts
Fast attack- 3x 3 Reavers each with cluster caltrops 189pts
Heavy Support – 2x Void Raven Bomber 320pts
Detachment – CAD – Dark eldar
HQ- Lhaneans w/ Venom dual Splinter Cannons – 75 pts
Elites-  none
Troops- 2x 4 k- warriors, Sybarite w/Haywire Grenade each in venom w/dual splinter cannon 240pts
Fast attack- 2 x Scouges w/4 haywire blasters 240pts
Heavy Support – none
16 units total w/ everyone in vehicles

List 2
Detachment- Harlequins
Formation – Faolvhu’s Blade w/ 2x2 Sky Weavers each w/ a Zephyrglaive, 1x Voidweaver w/ Prismatic Cannon – 320pts
Detachment- Heamonculus Covens
Formation – grotesquerie - Heamonculus w/ splinter pistol and Flesh gauntlet, 3 grots each with raider ) one upgraded to an aberration w/ agonizer 435pts
Detachment – RSR – Dark eldar
HQ- 2x Lhaneans w/ Venom dual Splinter Cannons – 150 pts
Elites- Mandrakes – 36pts
Troops-4 x 4 k- warriors, Sybarite w/Haywire Grenade each in venom w/dual splinter cannon 480pts
Fast attack- 3 x 3 Reavers each with cluster caltrops 63pts
2 x Scouges w/4 haywire blasters 240pts
17 units

thoughts ideas?

edit i was writing this as you replied. kinda had the same line of thought. im not sure about the bombers i never used em. figured they would last alot longer than a ravenger though
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar / Harlequins   Mon Jan 30 2017, 10:51

If i had to choose, LIst 1.

Keep dual CAD for obsec unless your desperate.
I really don't like voidravens... or too much haywire. It may be useless if you run into a no vehicle, GMC/MC/FMC heavy list.
Which are not rare in tournaments. I assume your doing tournaments cos ITC.
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sumguy777
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar / Harlequins   Mon Jan 30 2017, 15:58

okay,  im not really attached to them anyway so if you cut the void ravens what would you add.
by had to it seems like you dont like it. what do you not like about it besides the void ravens.

edit i came up with these 2 ideas

Detachment- Heamonculus Covens
Formation – grotesquerie - Heamonculus w/ Liquefier gun and Scissorhand, 3 grots each with raider 415pts
Detachment – CAD – Dark eldar
HQ- Lhaneans w/ Venom dual Splinter Cannons – 75 pts
Elites- 3 grots with raider one upgraded to an aberration w/ Scissorhand 180
Troops- 2x 4 k- warriors, Sybarite w/Haywire Grenade each in venom w/dual splinter cannon 240pts
Fast attack- 3x 3 Reavers each with cluster caltrops 189pts
Heavy Support – 2x Ravenger w/ 3 DL 250pts
Detachment – CAD – Dark eldar
HQ- Lhaneans w/ Venom dual Splinter Cannons – 75 pts
Elites- none
Troops- 2x 4 k- warriors, Sybarite w/Haywire Grenade each in venom w/dual splinter cannon 240pts
Fast attack- Scouges w/4 haywire blasters 120pts
3 reavers w/ clustered caltrop 63pts
Heavy Support – none
16 units 1847pts
List 2
Formation – grotesquerie - Heamonculus w/ flesh gauntlet, 3 grots each with raider 400pts
Detachment – CAD – Dark eldar
HQ- Lhaneans w/ Venom dual Splinter Cannons – 75 pts
Elites- none
Troops- 2x 4 k- warriors, Sybarite w/Haywire Grenade each in venom w/dual splinter cannon 240pts
Fast attack- 3x 3 Reavers each with cluster caltrops 189pts
Heavy Support – 3x Ravenger w/ 3 DL 375pts
Detachment – CAD – Dark eldar
HQ- Lhaneans w/ Venom dual Splinter Cannons – 75 pts
Elites- none
Troops- 2x 4 k- warriors, Sybarite w/Haywire Grenade each in venom w/dual splinter cannon 240pts
Fast attack- Scouges w/4 haywire blasters 120pts
3 reavers w/ clustered caltrop 63pts
3 reavers w/ clustered caltrop and blaster 73pts
Heavy Support – none
17 units – 1850pts
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar / Harlequins   Tue Jan 31 2017, 05:33

I'm very partial to both of these lists and prefer the second one.
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sumguy777
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar / Harlequins   Tue Jan 31 2017, 06:55

i personally feel like the first one fits my play style better. do think they are both balanced? pros cons?
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar / Harlequins   Tue Jan 31 2017, 07:08

I like to think about it this way: the first one is harder to wound, because you'll have more T5 bodies, while the second one will get more better saves.

I'd strongly consider changing haemonculus loadouts in either case though. The list 2 version should probably have the rending since there really isn't a good unit for them to be fishing for ID with. The list 1 version shouldn't have a liquifier gun because it is a seriously underwhelming shooting weapon that isn't worth anywhere near 15 pts. given that you have a wide smattering of anti-vehicle throughout your army I'd probably consider re allocating the aberration into one of the grotesquerie squads and using the liquifier gun points to make the other match. haemi keeps their scissorhand and joins the vanilla squad for s6 charges turn 3.
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar / Harlequins   Tue Jan 31 2017, 08:09

amorrowlyday wrote:
I'm very partial to both of these lists and prefer the second one.

My thoughts as well.

@sumguy777 - Your lists are sweet mate. Now go play some games, find your own style, and customize to taste. Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar / Harlequins   Tue Jan 31 2017, 08:45

It really warms my black, rotten heart to see Archons helping each other so patiently. I love you

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