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 Would AOSing army building be so bad?

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Would AOSing army building be so bad?    Wed Jan 25 2017, 23:37

I can say Warp Spiders are sinister even if people know it's coming. They eat gargantuans and superheavies alive and murder anything that can't get away through attrition.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Would AOSing army building be so bad?    Thu Jan 26 2017, 00:06

Explain to me how S6 eats Av13+ alive again?
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Would AOSing army building be so bad?    Thu Jan 26 2017, 00:22

Also, I play eldar and DE, where your expensive guns are butting up against initiative 5+ quite often, so they aren't as killy as you might expect.

I'd love to play my typical tournament list against a bunch of warp spiders. I'd kill them all in the psychic phase, most likely. I don't play many gargantuans/superheavies. I rarely run a wraithknight.

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PostSubject: Re: Would AOSing army building be so bad?    Thu Jan 26 2017, 04:18

I played against the guy who won Hammer in the New Year the past 2 years in the first round and he was running seer council. I was using a bog standard Eldar MSU with 6 units of spiders. By the end of the game, I had half my army and he was reduced to just his seerstar. Most of that was Warp Spiders.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Would AOSing army building be so bad?    Thu Jan 26 2017, 04:36

Was that Casey Dunn? That's the only huzzah event winning name I can find that plays eldar and I'm on the beast coast so I'm unfamiliar with your specific community and don't want to know otherwise as that would be doxing, which I think is uncool. Casey like Reecius, myself and Chris Rett as examples exist online as ourselves so I don't think it counts. Anyway if it was,  I don't hold Casey in very high regard. Especially not after his public stance on the ITC vote about corsairs.

Do you see what I just did above? That's how on topic your anecdote was since it doesn't tell us anything about their list at large except that it had a seerstar.
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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: Would AOSing army building be so bad?    Thu Jan 26 2017, 04:45

TeenageAngst wrote:
I played against the guy who won Hammer in the New Year the past 2 years in the first round and he was running seer council. I was using a bog standard Eldar MSU with 6 units of spiders. By the end of the game, I had half my army and he was reduced to just his seerstar. Most of that was Warp Spiders.

I don't play like any seer star you've ever seen, very likely. Every single tournament opponent I ever play is surprised by the effectiveness of my list, that usually doesn't appear to be an effective or scary list when looking at it. No scatter lasers, no wraithknights, often no D-weapons, no hornets...I could go on. They look at such a list and see no threat. But because I use alternative methods, I'm able to do things typical lists can't. The point is, I don't play lists you typically see because I don't netlist at all. I am an innovator, not an emulator. So comparing the performance of your warp spiders against a list and playstyle that likely doesn't resemble my list or playstyle at all is a rather moot point.

But, that said, I don't release my current tournament lists online any more since I previously had them stolen and used by a competitor without even offering thanks or sharing credit. And because of that, I'm unable to effectively demonstrate to you mathematically why my tactic would work. I assure you that I have mathematic support for being able to both survive and kill masses of warp spiders with ease. You may either believe that, or not. I understand if you don't, since you don't know me that well. But they can be killed with other armies as well. It just so happens that I already had an extremely effective counter in my main list.

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PostSubject: Re: Would AOSing army building be so bad?    Thu Jan 26 2017, 04:47

@BetrayTheWorld I hope I get the opportunity to play you in a third round sometime. I think that would be very enlightening.
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PostSubject: Re: Would AOSing army building be so bad?    Thu Jan 26 2017, 04:57

@amorrowlyday: Why do you say third round? It's late here and I'm tired, so maybe I'm missing the obvious...

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Would AOSing army building be so bad?    Thu Jan 26 2017, 05:09

Oh I thought you might point that out: I don't predict a high scoring tight game. Either a blowout or a lowscoring tight game. Even if I lose to a baronial court, usually a mismatch for me as an example, early on I put up good points and wind up on a decent table later. Since I don't see that happening if we should play I don't want to play you in the beginning, and if we play at the end of a GT we either both had meh events or there will be wide spread complaints about new fringe play.
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PostSubject: Re: Would AOSing army building be so bad?    Thu Jan 26 2017, 05:18

Quote :
Was that Casey Dunn?
No it was Matt Shuchmann(sp?). He won the match by points because I gambled on there being a turn 6 and lost the gamble. Very good player who's been playing Seerstars for years, and nice guy too. I'm shocked I did as well as I did, but most of the work was the Warp Spiders. His list was Vaul's Support behind a VSG, a melta wraithknight, a Seer Council, 3 extra Farseers with Baharoth, and scatbikes. Things went bad for him when the Spiders got fantastic rolls for their first movement phase and I played almost the entire game in his deployment zone. I was extremely aggressive and he couldn't match it because he had too much in reserves. That being said I made a lot of mistakes and ended up losing because of them.

Quote :
I don't play like any seer star you've ever seen, very likely.
Considering I've only played against 2 you're probably right. However I did have one squad of spiders mulch a VSG, a Wraithknight, and 2 units of scatbikes with farseers in them in one game, and that was against someone who also had them in his own army. Convincing me they're not dead nuts hard is going to be an uphill battle.

Oh yeah, I was told my local Warhammer store is having an AoS event and they told me to bring my Aelfs, so I'm gonna give that a shot on Friday. I have an Aelf army, like 80 models or something someone gave me, so that'll be an experience.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Would AOSing army building be so bad?    Thu Jan 26 2017, 05:26

1 N. That's a name I very much do respect. and this additional info sounds about right.
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PostSubject: Re: Would AOSing army building be so bad?    Thu Jan 26 2017, 16:20

amorrowlyday wrote:
Oh I thought you might point that out: I don't predict a high scoring tight game. Either a blowout or a lowscoring tight game. Even if I lose to a baronial court, usually a mismatch for me as an example, early on I put up good points and wind up on a decent table later. Since I don't see that happening if we should play I don't want to play you in the beginning, and if we play at the end of a GT we either both had meh events or there will be wide spread complaints about new fringe play.


@amorrowlyday: What faction are you talking about playing? My main list is unfair against non-coven DE, but I do understand what you mean now. I probably would have made the final day of Adepticon last year if my first game wasn't a tight one against the prevailing space marine list during that time. I ended like 1 place out of the final day. It was basically a carbon copy of the list Franky G. from frontline gaming used to win best general in that tournament. It didn't help that the guy didn't have a copy of his own rules, so time got wasted as he ran around trying to borrow a book(which he never found) and we had to end early.

Fun fact: I actually played against like 3 variations of that list at Adepticon. It was by far the most popular netlist at the event(I think Frankie told everyone what list he was using in advance). The first game was my first time playing against said list, which is why the points were so close. I pretty handily defeated the other guys who played variations of it.

Where are you from? Maybe we can play a game outside of a tournament.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Would AOSing army building be so bad?    Thu Jan 26 2017, 20:29

Massachusetts. Right now I'm mostly playing triple detachment Corsairs/vanillaDE/CWE. Everything could change radically in 3 weeks though unless folks drop detachment limits.
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PostSubject: Re: Would AOSing army building be so bad?    Thu Jan 26 2017, 20:45

amorrowlyday wrote:
unless folks drop detachment limits.

Oh, I soooo hope this happens.

I've never played against corsairs. I own a copy of IA:11 and have run some corsairs with "counts as" models, but the only guy I know who runs corsairs around here doesn't play very often at all. Like, probably not since 7th came out, haha.

I'm sure if we played, it'd certainly be an interesting, high mobility afair.

Are you going to the next NOVA? I had to cancel my plans to go to the LVO this year due to a last minute auto repair that cost me over $3000.00 USD. I'm hoping my wallet recovers enough to go to adepticon, but I'm not 100% on that yet.

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