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Tounguekutter
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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:33 am

Oh yeah, I forgot to clarify that when I say "we" I mean those 40k players out there who play Dark Eldar, and this is based on my speculation derived from the discussions I've read on this forum. Thanks for the statement on brevity.

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HokutoAndy
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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:54 am

Before DE got models there were already corsair Eldar, craftworlders who leave the Craftworld purely out of lust to kill and have fun doing so. In some ways that makes them bigger jerks than Dark Eldar, who NEED to kill to protect their souls, as corsairs still have soulstones and can go back home if they agree to walk a path.


@amorrowlyday wrote:
So if that does happen that's completely different from age of sigmar which the opposite of the line you were toting yesterday. And in my opinion a MASSIVE improvement over both Age of Sigmar and present.

WHFB did that with Host of the Eternity King elves, some of them even gained each other's special rules. Could they be planning that with Eldar/Aeldari? That's a possibility but I think it's more likely they'll update Craftworlders/Dark/Harlequins with different books... so they can nickel and dime us year round.

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:41 am

@amorrowlyday wrote:
So if that does happen that's completely different from age of sigmar which the opposite of the line you were toting yesterday. And in my opinion a MASSIVE improvement over both Age of Sigmar and present.
I disagree. We would be an army with the largest selection of units in any category I believe. The differences between BIS and WIS would create a very very boring All-Eldar meta. I consider this a massive step down. I am all for the "moar options" but not like this. We are not talking about mixing and matching in CHSM + Traitors Legions, we are talking a completely different level of options.
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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:08 pm

Based on what they've done with sigmar we can expect to be rolled into a mega faction only be broken up into many small factions with groups of models from the 3 different current factions.

So really we shouldn't be buying anything they put out right now since it will have very limited shelf life. Best advice seems to be to wait out the storm until everything settles.

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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:13 pm

@aurynn I'm more than willing, and will be pumped if gw is willing, to take that risk.

@Seshiru I don't know if I would go that far. Malekith as Eternity king never got a model, and all of the huge centerpiece models from before AoS (looking at you nagash) are still very playable. I think GW's ethos of buy crap cause it looks cool is the best way to proceed at present since you're right: rules outcomes are likely to be temporary.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:44 pm

@amorrowlyday wrote:
@aurynn I'm more than willing, and will be pumped if gw is willing, to take that risk.
I bet you are. :-) I bet you will get more competitive Eldar. But I bet that playing pure Dark Eldar will be even more difficult than before and that is sad... for me. From models POV and even from gameplay POV. I want an option to field pure DE competitively without having to resort to spam lists or 1 or 2 variants or allies. Out of all Eldar factions CWE are the most boring dudes I want to bring along. Even though they are strong.
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:57 pm

I am seeing many similarities to the Harlequinn release, actually. They too, were originally part of CWE and DE and become their own army with fluff, rules, formations and additional models.

Ynnead will be similar, only that the DE and CWE still have access (unlike the Harlies). Maybe we even get some pure-DE formations with a Ynnead HQ on top of that and I could totally live with that. If that would be the case we get some formations that could finally make Incubi, Wyches and Hellions valid again. I can't see how this could possible be a bad thing.

If not? Well, then everything stays the same. Seriously, it's not like anybody wants to steal our models or something.

In any case, I am really glad to know that GW is actually aware that things like Hellions have terrible rules. We'll see if they really meant it serious when they said that they want to make them good again.

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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:26 pm

Well, I have been away of late doing uni work For Xmas I got Star Wars Rebels Seasons 1 and 2 and the Clone wars box set...

And Im no wimp but Im shocked at the family unfriendliness in it. we see massacares, torture, corruption, delibrete maiming...lots of folks get run through with lightsabres of course.

I grew up in an age where there was a lot of concern over bad things in Kids stuff...But we knew that when Bug Bunny got clobbered he would be up again in a second. Cartoon violence is just that...its not real.

Quite a few of the more political episodes I cannot even see the attaction to younglings anyway...they bore the pants off me.

Give me Slanessh and titties any day. (Heck, I have two of my own...)

We have had that in GW for 25 years now...why the sudden distaste?
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:41 pm

It's not sudden distaste I don't think so much as a realization under new management that they can expand their market share by excluding certain parts of the fluff that do not appeal to the target demographic (moms of kids/young teens). Meanwhile, merging the Eldar forces through some overfaction allows for new models to be released that fit into the armies of all 3 primary Eldar factions, thus expanding their accessibility and profitability.

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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:57 am

Also the make eldar player to buy dark eldar miniatures and dark eldar players to buy eldar miniastures. So even old customer will suddenly buy new models. Smart trick.

I´m optimistic that this will be intersting and cool. I just hope thet can manage to still keep the spirit behind DE (and ofc the other factions too) even if they do a new one.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:07 am

@Tengu wrote:
We have had that in GW for 25 years now...why the sudden distaste?
Its the US marketing. They can live with violence. Somehow they find it less damaging to kids than nuidity and little perversion. :-)
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:01 am

Okay so the book is out, let's see how some of my predictions panned out.

- Commorragh is going to be destroyed, or so upturned it makes the Andy Chambers books read like a mild inconvenience.

- This will cause a large part of the surviving population if not everyone involved into a shotgun marriage with the Craftworlders and/or the clowns.

- Ynnead's stuff is going to cut our ties to Slaanesh entirely or at least cause our need to feed on souls to disappear. We might still go on raids and torture people and stuff, but it'll be for the lulz and not for actual necessity, because having character depth is bad.

The lack of Power From Pain and the replacement with Soulburst pretty much nails this.

- We will still be Webway based, but likely out of some common port shared with other Eldar like we're in college rooming with people we don't like.

- The Eldar overfaction melding of our factions like we saw in Death Masque will continue.

Nailed it.

- Dark Eldar will have their edge filed down like a pair of safety scissors. Specifically, they will learn to play nice with other Eldar and maybe even other races in the fluff.

- Moving forward from this book into 8th, Dark Eldar will become basically a reskin of Craftworld Eldar. Because while you can't sell the fluff to kiddies, you can sell the models, because the models look hella tight. Everyone loves Dark Eldar models, everyone loves Craftworld rules, put the two together and what have you got? The next big seller. Remove all the fluff that makes their mommas weep and replace it with some generic contrived grimdark space elf nonsense and there you go.

I'm saying this is currently a maybe, but after this installment I will say I'm leaning to probably not. It's likely we will be Sigmarized into smaller individual factions.

- Something dead nuts EDIT is going to be a major plot point in the book. I'm talking Star Wars prequels levels of bad. You will be able to see it from orbit. And we are going to have to live with it because it's central to the entire new plot being put forward.

Even though I haven't read the fluff yet I would stake my army on it.

- At least one of the 3 new models is going to have psychic powers so ridiculous the ITC will be like "hold on a minute..."

We'll have to wait for the FAQ but I doubt it.

- Webway portals for everyone.

I couldn't find a greener color green.

- Matt Ward somehow some way will be involved, and ironically will likely not be tied to the terrible plot point, but rather the clean up afterwords.

The fluff will bear this out.

- I will read the entire book while on the toilet.

It's coming.

So it looks like my appraisal of the technical aspects of the game were more or less on point, however we'll see if I completely flub it in the fluff. Something tells me Commorragh will still be left standing.[/color][/color]


Last edited by TeenageAngst on Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:29 am

@TeenageAngst wrote:

- Commorragh is going to be destroyed, or so upturned it makes the Andy Chambers books read like a mild inconvenience.

'Bout on par with the Chambers bidniss.

Quote :
- This will cause a large part of the surviving population if not everyone involved into a shotgun marriage with the Craftworlders and/or the clowns.

Nope.  The DE who join the Ynnari do so completely voluntarily.

Quote :
- Ynnead's stuff is going to cut our ties to Slaanesh entirely or at least cause our need to feed on souls to disappear. We might still go on raids and torture people and stuff, but it'll be for the lulz and not for actual necessity, because having character depth is bad.

Your initial prediction sounded like what you MEANT was "Ynnead is going to eliminate the need for all Dark Eldar to feed Slaanesh," which is dead wrong.  Only the Dark Eldar who choose to follow Ynnead could potentially claim such a benefit, and it isn't spelled out that that is the case so far. If what you meant was that Ynnead will offer the possibility of breaking ties with Slaanesh, then yes, that appears to be correct.

Quote :
- We will still be Webway based, but likely out of some common port shared with other Eldar like we're in college rooming with people we don't like.

That one's a miss.

Quote :
- The Eldar overfaction melding of our factions like we saw in Death Masque will continue.

That's kind of what they were advertising though, so that isn't really a surprise.

Quote :
- Dark Eldar will have their edge filed down like a pair of safety scissors. Specifically, they will learn to play nice with other Eldar and maybe even other races in the fluff.

Not really.  The DE are as dangerous as ever they were, and if anything the ones that aren't following Ynnead are going to end up doubling down on their perversion.

Quote :
- Moving forward from this book into 8th, Dark Eldar will become basically a reskin of Craftworld Eldar. Because while you can't sell the fluff to kiddies, you can sell the models, because the models look hella tight. Everyone loves Dark Eldar models, everyone loves Craftworld rules, put the two together and what have you got? The next big seller. Remove all the fluff that makes their mommas weep and replace it with some generic contrived grimdark space elf nonsense and there you go.

Doesn't look likely.

Quote :
- Something [bad] is going to be a major plot point in the book. I'm talking Star Wars prequels levels of bad. You will be able to see it from orbit. And we are going to have to live with it because it's central to the entire new plot being put forward.

Not particularly.

Quote :
- At least one of the 3 new models is going to have psychic powers so ridiculous the ITC will be like "hold on a minute..."

I wish.

Quote :
- Webway portals for everyone.

No one has access to WWP now that didn't before.

Quote :
- Matt Ward somehow some way will be involved, and ironically will likely not be tied to the terrible plot point, but rather the clean up afterwords.

Hopefully he'll write the next DE 'dex.


Last edited by Jimsolo on Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:42 am

I have amended the previous post to reflect these developments. The more I learn about Yvraine though the more I believe she is the dead nuts EDIT mary sue that I'm looking for.
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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:43 pm

+1 for Jimsolo. That was pretty much what I was thinking too.

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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:18 pm

All I want is for Dark Eldar to be competitive without having to take allies and for their fluff to stay edgy Sad

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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:53 pm

+1 for Jimsolo.

Does anyone think that GW will still be doing codex (codexes? Codii? Codrxi?) or that they stop doing that and only publish those campaign books?

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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:30 am

The Ynnari at this point feel more like an expansion of the Harlequins faction than 'taking away' from the others. Dark Eldar actually gained more distinction with the Mandrakes becoming a major power after the Khaine's gate and only a minority of kabals and cults joined Yvraine. The Covens are still entirely on Vect's side.

The shake up of Ynnead's birth, Biel Tan's fracture, Khaine's Gate breaking, and Eldrad (humorously) being deemed too dang unpredictable by his fellow seers opens up more opportunity for Eldar players of all stripes to come up with fluff justifying why they're a combination of X and Y ("These Biel Tan aspect warriors became corsairs after the fracture and joined a fleet started by an exiled Kabalite") or purely Y ("This Kabal stands by Vect").
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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:48 pm

Must say I kinda like it. The growth of importance of mandrakes is great. (they were some of my only d eldar models from past editions. I liked the idea of them and the models are awesome. If we can get a second mandrake based unit I would love it. But we probably still have to wait a while for the next codex.
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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:03 pm

As someone who liked Mandrakes before they were cool I'm just gonna snidely judge anyone who says they like them now like a Star Wars fan after the release of Episode 7.

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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:45 pm

I didn't love them before. Still not a fan. And I'm not really sure why other people are. I mean, I know the argument, I just don't comprehend it.
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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:51 pm

I like the prequels. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:57 pm

@BetrayTheWorld wrote:
I like the prequels. Razz

Now you're sounding like my ex-wife.
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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:13 pm

Hard to know how to respond to that. I'd say she has good tastes, but then, she married you once. Very Happy

Joking! Wink

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PostSubject: Re: New models have me worried about the upcoming book.   Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:51 pm

I heard rumors that OG Mandrakes had crazy unique rules, but that they were basically just a variant of Dark Eldar with coal-black skin. I kind of like their mystery and daemonic traits that they have fluff-wise now, but IMO it would be cool if they were more than just a side-dish unit. They're playable sure, but their purposes limit the amount you want to take them in.

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