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Marrath
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 01:04

Actually i'm getting increasingly irritated by the absence of the covens.
In the Coven supplement there's even fluff about a discipline of the Haemonculi, called Phoenex, secret and working with rogues of all eldar for Ynnead.
Sounds familiar?
Why no Covens GW!?!
Stupid IMO. Bad treatment of Dark Eldar.
Craftworlds have it all again, is there a single Eldar unit not in Ynnari?
Or an Ynnari Formation not being majorly Craftworld Eldar?
The list also makes Dark Eldar lack of Characters blatantly obvious.

End of Rant, sorry a bit agitated bounce


Last edited by Marrath on Thu Feb 09 2017, 01:10; edited 1 time in total
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 01:07

I'm hoping the odd absences are because the codex is about to get updated which would make too much of the stuff not match up.

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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 01:28

covens get the treemen treatment and become a seperate faction (Sylvaneth) from regular wood elves (Wanderers).
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Marrath
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 01:33

That reminds me: Is it me or has GWs website become quite difficult to navigate/search for Fantasy with Age Of Sigmar and now 40K too with all that faction jumbling?
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 04:29

@amorrowlyday wrote:
covens get the treemen treatment and become a seperate faction (Sylvaneth) from regular wood elves (Wanderers).

In theory every subfaction will, so we'll have Wych Cults and such as well. I hope.

@Marrath This entire update is quite possibly the laziest GW could have done. All they did was lump most of the Eldar together and say "let the meta sort it out." Which of course means 90% of unit entries instantly become worthless in the face of BIS syndrome, nearly the entire DE codex included. The fact Covens wasn't lumped in is probably a saving grace since the Covens PFP table is actually really really good. And yes, the Sigmar portion of the website is impossible to navigate.
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 05:03

I'm sorry, what is BIS syndrome? Despite the fact that it has come up more than once I still haven't pieced it together yet.

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 05:05

Best in slot. So DE BIS for troops would be warriors.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 05:06

And TeenageAngst is suggesting that CWE will occupy all the Ynnari slots.
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 05:26

@Draco Thanks for the clarification man. [finger gun x2] Cool

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 05:37

I actually think that lumping all the books together will counteract BIS syndrome rather than amplify it. List objectives, local metas, competitive metas, and personal opinion will lead to a great deal of disagreement and variance in what people consider 'best.'
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 06:36

@Jimsolo wrote:
I actually think that lumping all the books together will counteract BIS syndrome rather than amplify it. List objectives, local metas, competitive metas, and personal opinion will lead to a great deal of disagreement and variance in what people consider 'best.'

This sounds like one of those people in the competitive 40k group trying to justify running a Fire Warrior gunline instead of Riptide Wings.
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 06:44

Rolling Eyes

I can't speak to Firewarrior gunlines, but Riptide Wings aren't the only competitive Tau build.

You've only got 6 battlefield roles. There are more than 6 units worth taking out of the selection available to the Ynnari. Way more.
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 07:17

Quote :
You've only got 6 battlefield roles. There are more than 6 units worth taking out of the selection available to the Ynnari. Way more.

Not only is there a finite set of decent builds, but I bet I could write a python script that would dispense them based on basic parameters such as detachment limits, tournament FAQs, etc. Scatbikes are the best troops. They're absolutely disgusting for what you get, especially since they can benefit from the special ability that Venoms can't. Warp Spiders Aspect Host and Seer Council are still the best and now even stronger formations. Wraithguard and the Harlequin elites battle it out for the best in that slot depending on what you are doing. Farseers on bikes are the best HQs. Autarchs are okay if you rely on reserves, and a Spiritseer might be good if you're going heavy on Wraiths, but you're not taking an Archon or a Succubus. FA belongs to Swooping Hawks, Spiders, and Reavers if that's your thing. HS is Warp Hunters, and if you can't bring Warp Hunters (not sure how FW is handled in this) then you leave this entry blank cause there are no other good HS. LoW Wraithknight, no contest. Fortification, VSG.

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 07:29

We don't know yet that this can be taken as a CAD, so no fortification slot yet.
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 08:06

Including CWE units in your DE list is a slippery slope!
One day you wake up and you're "that effing eldar guy" that nobody wants to play... It happened to me!!   affraid

To avoid BiS syndrome I will stick as close as possible to my current DE lists. Most of it will fit into dual CADs.
2 sslyth units could replace my usual grotesquerie... maybe. scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 09:46

As I'm primarily interested in Freakshow lists I am happy to be able to include Shadowseers (Mask of Secrets), Farseers (Psychic Shriek) etc and I am also keen to include some Harelquins without the ridiculous restrictions in their own codex. I know there's a massive temptation to just take CWE units in place of DE stuff because there's precious little reason not to from a pure gaming perspective. I will however try to limit that as far as possible without totally gimping my lists.

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 10:24

I may give the harleys a good try out now they've dropped the stupid limitations also.

Totally gimping my lists because "I  I love you  DE" is ingrained in my cold black soul.
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 10:49

If you really think about it, is BIS-syndrome that much of a problem?

Yeah there might be a CWE unit in each slot that's better than the DE unit (save Reavers and a few select others), but so long as the DE unit it's compared against is close enough to not gimp your list then all's well Smile it's not min-maxing, but if it's close enough to be competitive then that's fine Smile

Also, could this be used to fix some of the problems that DEldar units have with less of a tax? Specifically I'm thinking of attaching a cheap Shadowseer to an Incubi squad to give them grenades as well as psychic support alongside a half-decent melee beatstick...

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 10:54

@Painjunky wrote:
I may give the harleys a good try out now they've dropped the stupid limitations also.

Totally gimping my lists because "I  I love you  DE" is ingrained in my cold black soul.

The way round this I see is with conversions and counts-as Smile

A ruleset is just that: a ruleset. There's no obligation to use the models they're supposed to represent.

What if your Kabal uses unorthadox combat tactics and units? Converting some units to make DE versions of Howling Banshees/Scatterbikes/Dire Avengers/Harlequins/whatever you like? I've always thought that Harlequins would make better Bloodbrides than Bloodbrides do...

As for Strength from Death, how about your Haemi (using insights gained from studying captured Ynnari psykers), has developed a modified Soultrap that captures the essence of the slain around them and feeds that directly into the DEldar's bloodstream, as opposed to just allowing the overall bloody ambiance of the battlefield to seep into them gradually?

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 11:35

I cant wait to sparkle shadowseers and death jesters in my DE units!

...

As Dark Eldar are battle brothers with Ynnari, we can still take a grotesquerie as a second detachment.
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 14:18


@TeenageAngst wrote:
Quote :
You've only got 6 battlefield roles. There are more than 6 units worth taking out of the selection available to the Ynnari. Way more.

Not only is there a finite set of decent builds, but I bet I could write a python script that would dispense them based on basic parameters such as detachment limits, tournament FAQs, etc. Scatbikes are the best troops. They're absolutely disgusting for what you get, especially since they can benefit from the special ability that Venoms can't. Warp Spiders Aspect Host and Seer Council are still the best and now even stronger formations. Wraithguard and the Harlequin elites battle it out for the best in that slot depending on what you are doing. Farseers on bikes are the best HQs. Autarchs are okay if you rely on reserves, and a Spiritseer might be good if you're going heavy on Wraiths, but you're not taking an Archon or a Succubus. FA belongs to Swooping Hawks, Spiders, and Reavers if that's your thing. HS is Warp Hunters, and if you can't bring Warp Hunters (not sure how FW is handled in this) then you leave this entry blank cause there are no other good HS. LoW Wraithknight, no contest. Fortification, VSG.

You list eleven choices across six battlefield roles. Four HQs. So even by your own reasoning, 'best' is a matter of perspective, context, and preference.
@Count Adhemar wrote:
As I'm primarily interested in Freakshow lists I am happy to be able to include Shadowseers (Mask of Secrets), Farseers (Psychic Shriek) etc and I am also keen to include some Harelquins without the ridiculous restrictions in their own codex. I know there's a massive temptation to just take CWE units in place of DE stuff because there's precious little reason not to from a pure gaming perspective. I will however try to limit that as far as possible without totally gimping my lists.

I'm right there. Not quite sure what the ideal Freakshow will look like, but looking forward to figuring it out.
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 14:24

@Jimsolo wrote:
Not quite sure what the ideal Freakshow will look like, but looking forward to figuring it out.

I was going to respond on that point but I think a new thread might be in order so I'll do that instead.

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 16:44

Heh. BIS... I see BIS slots beaten by subpar lists quite regularly. BIS is only applicable if you play at top level. So for 80% of games simply no issue. :-)
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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 20:15

Even running an optimized list can't help you if you straight suck, but like a Riptide Wing with marker drones, a good Ynnadi list will get any rube who can point at targets and throw dice about 60% of the way there. If you're not running scatbikes in a Ynnadi list you better be one clever son of a b**** or enjoy hanging around the bottom tables.

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PostSubject: Re: Eldar Triumvirate    Thu Feb 09 2017, 20:59

@TeenageAngst wrote:
If you're not running scatbikes in a Ynnadi list you better be one clever son of a b**** or enjoy hanging around the bottom tables.
Ha!
I really really want to disagree with you, but in this case, it really isn't possible to.
Not in a ynnadi list at least.

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